boiler
#1
11-26-10, 05:05 PM
boiler
I have a weil-mclain cgt gold gas fired tankless boiler installed Jan,06,I would like to know how to do an annual flush of the tankless system
#2
11-26-10, 05:57 PM
annual flush of the tankless system
If you are talking about flushing out the boiler water that circulates in the heaters, it is NOT recommended to do that. It will damage the system and cause more trouble than it is worth. If you are interested, I will explain why...
but maybe that's not what you are talking about?
#3
11-26-10, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by NJ Trooper
but maybe that's not what you are talking about?
#4
11-27-10, 08:20 AM
boiler
Is there a way to flush inlet and outlet in the boiler itself.I,ve seen where you isolate those pipes and use 2 gal vinegar,5 gal bucket,2 hoses and a submersible pump.My boiler is making popping and percolating noise because of hard water lime and calcium deposits.I need specific details on how and if I can do that flushing job,or do I have to pay a plumber?Thanks in advance
#5
11-27-10, 03:21 PM
Speaks, when you start a thread, you don't need to start a new one each time you wish to post a new message on that subject... simply "REPLY TO THREAD" ... repeat, do NOT start a new one each time. I merged your reply into your original post...
Who diagnosed the problem? In other words, how do you know that it's from mineral build-up?
What you are talking about sounds to me as if you are describing a 'home-made' solution for cleaning the TANKLESS COIL in a boiler that also supplies domestic hot water.
I don't think a 'plumber' is the man for the job, you need a BOILER TECH to look at it and diagnose the problem.
Who diagnosed the problem? In other words, how do you know that it's from mineral build-up?
What you are talking about sounds to me as if you are describing a 'home-made' solution for cleaning the TANKLESS COIL in a boiler that also supplies domestic hot water.
I don't think a 'plumber' is the man for the job, you need a BOILER TECH to look at it and diagnose the problem.
#6
11-27-10, 05:22 PM
He has a W/M CGT gas boiler, "T" standing for Tankless coil inserted into side of block more common on oil boilers, both types being huge energy wasters versus a indirect water heater along side the boiler.
The copper coil is flushed with a food grade delimer made for this process or vinegar, isolating the coil with valves, using service ports to pump solution through coil from a bucket with pump.
It can take 20 minutes to an hour normally
The copper coil is flushed with a food grade delimer made for this process or vinegar, isolating the coil with valves, using service ports to pump solution through coil from a bucket with pump.
It can take 20 minutes to an hour normally
#7
11-27-10, 08:57 PM
Right, but I don't think the poster is quite certain about some details... for example:
This does not sound like a problem with the tankless coil...
My boiler is making popping and percolating noise because of hard water lime and calcium deposits
#8
11-28-10, 11:04 AM
Thanks Trooper,new to site,did not know that about thread,anyways I was asking about flushing the tankless coil on the w/m cgt boiler and knowing how to isolate the coil and run vinager through it,If I shut the cold water supply off,do I need to shut off the hot water after the tempering valve that supplies the house faucets to create a loop
#9
11-28-10, 03:11 PM
No problem ! we're all new sometime, right?
What ZL said about flushing the tankless is right on then, but my concern is that the popping and 'percolating' noise that you are hearing might not be from lime in the tankless coil. But if you want to try flushing the tankless first, it can't hurt.
Here's the hard part though... unless you already have the appropriate valves installed to isolate the coil from the house plumbing, these will have to be added. You would need two shutoff valves, one on each side of the coil. You would also need two 'hose drains' (aka boiler drains) on the boiler side of those shutoff valves. This way, you can hook hoses up to those drains and use the pump to push the vinegar through the coil.
Submersible pumps can get a little pricey, but I know that HD and Lowes carry a smallish one for around $60 or so that is 'decent'. I think it comes with adapters for a garden hose hookup too... there are other pump options too... you could probably even use that kind that hooks up to electric drill.
When yer done with the vinegar solution, dilute it and water around your Azeleas... not too close... stay a few feet away and don't get any on the leaves. They love acid... damn hippie Azaleas...
What ZL said about flushing the tankless is right on then, but my concern is that the popping and 'percolating' noise that you are hearing might not be from lime in the tankless coil. But if you want to try flushing the tankless first, it can't hurt.
Here's the hard part though... unless you already have the appropriate valves installed to isolate the coil from the house plumbing, these will have to be added. You would need two shutoff valves, one on each side of the coil. You would also need two 'hose drains' (aka boiler drains) on the boiler side of those shutoff valves. This way, you can hook hoses up to those drains and use the pump to push the vinegar through the coil.
Submersible pumps can get a little pricey, but I know that HD and Lowes carry a smallish one for around $60 or so that is 'decent'. I think it comes with adapters for a garden hose hookup too... there are other pump options too... you could probably even use that kind that hooks up to electric drill.
When yer done with the vinegar solution, dilute it and water around your Azeleas... not too close... stay a few feet away and don't get any on the leaves. They love acid... damn hippie Azaleas...
#10
11-28-10, 03:14 PM
By the way... if you want to take some pics and post them, we'll take a look and see what you are working on, might be able to give you some more tips... set up a free account at Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket , upload the pics there, come back here and place a link to your album so we can view.
When you are done, it would be a good idea to take the handles off the shutoff valves and hang them on a nail near the boiler. You don't want someone accidentally shutting those valves when the boiler is in operation! OH, and use BALL VALVES for the shutoff if you don't already have them.
When you are done, it would be a good idea to take the handles off the shutoff valves and hang them on a nail near the boiler. You don't want someone accidentally shutting those valves when the boiler is in operation! OH, and use BALL VALVES for the shutoff if you don't already have them.
#12
11-28-10, 03:43 PM
I guess that depends... you might wanna make a nice vinegar and oil dressing, enriched with minerals! In that case I would use a nice balsamic... NOT!
Yes, white distilled vinegar.
Yes, white distilled vinegar.
#13
11-29-10, 05:08 PM
Thanks for the advice,the cold side has a shutoff valve before the tankless coil,the outlet side of the tankless coil feeds to a 3way tempering valve(mixing valve) for hot water supply to house plumbing.Before the mixing valve my plumber installed 2 tees with 3 quarter plugs in them,that is where I will install the boiler drain valves.Would I still need to install shutoff valve after the temperingvalve(mixingvalve)?
#16
12-07-10, 04:52 PM
Not only on Weil-Mclain, but ANY hot water boiler system.
Fresh water contains lots of dissolved OXYGEN. When you fill a boiler with fresh water that water and oxygen mixture immediately goes to work corroding (rusting) any ferrous metal it comes in contact with.
Most fresh water also contains certain amounts of 'hardness', i.e. Calcium and Magnesium. When the water is heated, these elements precipitate out of solution and form crusty deposits on the innards of your system.
As you heat the water, that oxygen and minerals are driven out of the water and expelled from the system. Some rusting of course occurs at first, but once those elements are out, they are out... and the water becomes INERT, which means it won't cause any further corrosion.
So, if you want to corrode your system a bit every year... and struggle with getting all the air out of the system every year... and deposit minerals on the inner surfaces every year... and basically ruin the boiler in a few years... then go ahead...
Otherwise, do NOT EVER flush a hot water boiler system. There is simply no reason to do so as a regular routine maintenance item. Some SPECIAL cases it may be necessary to do so, but on a regular basis, absolutely not.
Fresh water contains lots of dissolved OXYGEN. When you fill a boiler with fresh water that water and oxygen mixture immediately goes to work corroding (rusting) any ferrous metal it comes in contact with.
Most fresh water also contains certain amounts of 'hardness', i.e. Calcium and Magnesium. When the water is heated, these elements precipitate out of solution and form crusty deposits on the innards of your system.
As you heat the water, that oxygen and minerals are driven out of the water and expelled from the system. Some rusting of course occurs at first, but once those elements are out, they are out... and the water becomes INERT, which means it won't cause any further corrosion.
So, if you want to corrode your system a bit every year... and struggle with getting all the air out of the system every year... and deposit minerals on the inner surfaces every year... and basically ruin the boiler in a few years... then go ahead...
Otherwise, do NOT EVER flush a hot water boiler system. There is simply no reason to do so as a regular routine maintenance item. Some SPECIAL cases it may be necessary to do so, but on a regular basis, absolutely not.
#17
12-08-10, 01:13 PM
TY for the info trooper,I was at the home depot yesterday explaining the popping percolating noise to the employee there,he told me to look at the flow check valve.I don,t see anything like that on the system.This noise happens after the boiler fires and has been running for about a minute or so,once it cycles off,the noise ends,the circulator and baseboards are quiet.So maybe it,s nothing to worry about,I dont know..I do have hard water in this town,is it possible I have mineral deposits in the boiler itself and this would create the noise
#18
12-08-10, 03:30 PM
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Photos, as previously requested, would help us determine if you have flo-control valves or not. But flo-control valves are usually silent, unless there isn't enough flow to keep them open - in which case they may rattle or chatter.
Can you pinpoint the source of the noise? If it's coming from inside the boiler, it couldn't be flo-control valves.
Can you pinpoint the source of the noise? If it's coming from inside the boiler, it couldn't be flo-control valves.
#20
12-08-10, 04:30 PM
I can also say that the baseboards throughout the house heat well and there is plenty of hot water in house plumbing,just the noise when boiler fires up
#21
12-17-10, 03:09 PM
I do not have flow control valves,I have zone valves,boiler man over today,thinks boiler will need a flush along with a scale blocker installed.The town I live in has very hard water,comments are welcome
#22
12-17-10, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by speaks51
boiler man over today,thinks boiler will need a flush along with a scale blocker installed.The town I live in has very hard water,comments are welcome
I gather that you have been routinely draining and flushing the boiler in the past? That likely has helped promote the formation of scale.
Your city water is very hard? - call your water provider and get the average hardness numbers. Do you have a water softener? Is so, use softened water for makeup to the boiler. Have others in your town had similar problems?
What does the boiler pressure and temp gauge read? I can visualize low pressure leading to a percolating noise.
Personally, I would hold off on the flushing idea and the scale inhibitor until learning more and getting other opinions. You don't want to damage your boiler (any more).
