How difficult will this be (Hot Water Radiators - re-route)

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Old 12-16-10, 11:04 AM
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Question How difficult will this be (Hot Water Radiators - re-route)

Ok, as I mentioned in another post, I recently purchased a 1955 house which has 2 additions from 1970 (Sunroom and Upstairs).

I have a 2 zone system and the route setup can be seen here:

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/8114/currentxo.jpg


I would like to re-route Zone 2 due to an upstairs bathroom remodel, what kind of problems will I incure if I do something like this:

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/5672/futurej.jpg



If necessary, I can add real pictures of the boiler and its setup once I get home this evening. I just thought I would get a jump start on the opinions.

Thank you.
 
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Old 12-16-10, 12:51 PM
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Is one and two in yore picture circulators? Iron pipe for your first zone would lead me to believe its a gravity system. I would leave the 2nd floor piped as a loop. You will need monoflo tees to pipe if your way and may have un-desired results.

Mike NJ
 
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Old 12-16-10, 04:24 PM
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A house built in 1955 is unlikely to have had a gravity system.

Why would Monoflo tees be necessary? He would have two series loops after the change and the risers would act as mains. There may be some balancing issues but I see nothing beyond that.

BTW, the "iron" pipe is almost certain to be steel, not iron.
 
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Old 12-16-10, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Furd View Post
BTW, the "iron" pipe is almost certain to be steel, not iron.
Common black and galvanized pipe is normally Schedule 40, A-53 steel pipe. (A-53 pipe is used by the mega-ton in commercial, residential, and industrial systems.) The black pipe is the same as the galvanized, except it's not galvanized. I'm not sure where iron pipe is used now, or in 1955 - except drain, waste, and soil. And even there, it's mostly PVC now.
 
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Old 12-16-10, 05:17 PM
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I dont know but with a trunk line I would think the water will go down the feed and come back the return. Less resistance. Why would it turn up the tee to go in the radiators. Convection?

Mike
 
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Old 12-16-10, 05:34 PM
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Lawrosa, flow is always from a higher pressure to a lower pressure. I'll grant you that the pressure differential between the supply and return mains is small but it does exist. The two circuits in the proposed sketch will likely have different pressure drops and for this reason at least one of them (the one with lesser pressure drop) should have a balancing valve to ensure the proper flow through each circuit.
 
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Old 12-17-10, 07:04 AM
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Ok - More pictures...

Here are the pictures of my systems as promised. Please forgive me for all of my ignorance on this type of system - now that you folks mention steel pipes, yes that is more likely.....

The reason I need to change the 2nd floor addition is because it currently doesn't have a bathroom, its just a storage room. I need to break up the single loop on the 2nd floor because I need to install a shower exactly where the risers come up. I don't know if this system is a gravity system or not, hell if it is, I don't even know what that would mean for me. I'm just looking for advise and maybe a little "How-to" to get this 2nd floor loop split up so I get another bathroom installed.

My boiler is a Peerless MI-04-STDG-WPC, if that helps you all out.
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/5483/pic0060e.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/2011/pic0063vi.jpg
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/2669/pic0065s.jpg
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/8479/pic0066.jpg

This introduces additional water into the system?
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/3080/pic0067qd.jpg

Zone Relays (Left on is Upstairs , Right one is Downstairs)
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/1567/pic0068d.jpg

Connection from Boiler into the Steel Pipes, these run the entire length of the 1st floor, feeding all the loops.
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/353/pic0069q.jpg

End of the line loop
http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/7329/pic0070g.jpg

Original Crane Radiators installed in every room of the first floor
http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/9180/pic0071l.jpg
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/7098/pic0072u.jpg

Fin Type Radiators installed in the Sun Room and on the 2nd Floor (Cover is off)
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/9350/pic0073l.jpg
 
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Old 12-17-10, 07:27 AM
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Re-route Difficulty

I believe your system has a circulator for both the black steel and the 3/4" copper. You can cut the lines anywhere and splice a new fin unit in and just lengthen the return. I would use 3/4" PEX for the new lines if it is permitted in your local. Make sure the PEX is rated for a Cast Iron Boiler, though.

If you are putting in a tub in the bathroom you can place the radiator in space between the tub front and the tub itself. I would guess you would need a cast iron tub to better distribute the heat.
 
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Old 12-17-10, 07:41 AM
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Circulator?

Ok, in reading about Gravity Systems, mine isn't - I don't have a tank upstairs, and there are no vent / overflow pipes in my ceiling ( Gravity hot-water heating )

So, if I have circulators for both Zones, what do they look like? Did I capture an image of them in any of my pictures? Or is it possible that a systems doesn't have one?

I'm not installing a bathtub in the bathroom, just a stand up tiled shower... thats why the risers have to move. These ones come up from the basement EXACTLY where the shower is going, I have to cut them and move them to a new location.

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/9350/pic0073l.jpg
 
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Old 12-17-10, 07:50 AM
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Here is one of your circulators: http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/2011/pic0063vi.jpg . It is the black item to the right of the gauge. They can come in different colors like green or red. They all pretty much have that shape.
 
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Old 12-17-10, 08:08 AM
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ok, so...

Is it possible that this is the only one for the entire system (both Zones) ?? As far as I recall, without looking, I do not have another one like that.

I'm assuming this is installed on the Return flow side of both zones. Would it be beneficial to have it installed it a different location? Or perhaps 2 pumps instead of 1 (one for each Zone)? Or should I leave it the way it is and when I add my addition loop upstairs, wait and see how it functions?
 
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Old 12-17-10, 08:38 AM
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Don't worry about changing your pump around or adding more. You should fine with what you have. For this to work, I think it will be all about how it is piped. I'm certainly no expert on the subject, but it appears it should work. I don't see it to be much different than how your first floor is set up. If the supply and return tees for the #4 BR loop were closer, I would go for the monoflo tees, but they are pretty far apart.
 
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