Buderus G115 Daytime home temp won't rise above 64 degrees


  #1  
Old 12-17-10, 10:04 AM
C
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Buderus G115 Daytime home temp won't rise above 64 degrees

In 2007 we replaced our Weil-McLain with a Buderus G115 Boiler with a Carlin EZ-1 Burner. It has 3 TACO-00, upstairs heat, downstairs heat, hot water heater. It has a Honeywell Aquastat controller. Downstairs heat is controlled by Honeywell Programmable Thermostat. Upstairs controlled by round Honeywell Thermostat.

I got laid off and have been home daytimes in this early cold spell in the Northeast and have noticed that no matter what I set either thermostat to during the day the temperature never gets above 64 degrees. However in the late afternoon the temp starts rising until it gets to the temp set on the thermostat, without me doing anything.

I am no HVAC person in any sense and have searched the web for a few days now and can find no info on why the Buderus is doing this. There must be some kind of thermostat I don’t know about. I see info about the Logomatic control on the web, but I don’t think we have one. There is some kind of control in a gray box marked Honeywell on top of the boiler. I can see an LED display through a metal tab hole. I don’t know what it is doing though.

Is there anything I can do to get the temp to go up during the day? I’d at least like to know what is going on before I call the HVAC guy out.
 
  #2  
Old 12-17-10, 10:46 AM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 18,183
Received 77 Likes on 69 Posts
Can you tell us what the temp and pressure of the boiler is. There should be a gauge on the boiler. Guys here will help and if you can take pics of your system that would be great.

Here is your manual.


http://www.buderus.us/files/20100122...Manual0304.pdf

Mike NJ
 
  #3  
Old 12-17-10, 11:04 AM
C
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
160 degrees, 20 psi

I have pics, but can't figure out to post. My account says I can't post attachments.
 
  #4  
Old 12-17-10, 11:13 AM
F
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
Posts: 18,495
Received 37 Likes on 29 Posts
Nobody can directly post pictures. To post pictures you need to first upload the pictures to a photo hosting site such as photobucket.com or villagephotos.com. and then post the public URLs for the pictures (or album) here. More pictures are always better than fewer. Please have CLEAR, in focus and well lit pictures and have both close up pictures and ones from a far enough distance that we can see how the various parts are interconnected.
 
  #6  
Old 12-17-10, 12:20 PM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 18,183
Received 77 Likes on 69 Posts
So when you call for heat does the temp gauge at the boiler go no hotter then 160f? You should be getting 180F. Call for heat and watch the gauge. Let us know the max temp. Do you also here the circulator running? Take the cover off that honeywell box and take a pic.
 
  #7  
Old 12-17-10, 02:01 PM
C
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
After 9 hours the temp display and temp set on the thermostat are both at 70 degrees. The temp on the gauge is 150. I turned the thermostat up to 77 to make a call for heat. The burner turned on. The temp on the gauge went to 170. The temp on the LED display in the box went to 180. The burner stayed on for about a minute. The temp display on the thermostat actually went down 1 degree to 69. The burner has turned on and off a few times while I have been uploading the pics and writing this post. How do I know if the circulator is running? When the burner first turned on the pipes banged a little bit. The pipes have been warm all day. The gauge is now at 160.

PC170023 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
PC170024 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
 
  #8  
Old 12-17-10, 06:35 PM
C
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It's been another 5 hours and the termostat temp display still reads 69 degrees. I turned the setting down to 73 degrees but the reading has never gone over 69. The thermostat display also says HEAT ON this whole time, which according to the manual means it it calling for heat.

Under the gray box is a Honeywell Electronic Aquastat

PC170032 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
 
  #9  
Old 12-17-10, 06:48 PM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 18,183
Received 77 Likes on 69 Posts
I think NJ trooper knows this control.

http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell...ll/69_1720.pdf


Im looking for the schematic for that aquastat but you said the circ is not working. You should feel it humming on heat call. I cant see the lid on the aquastat but you want to verify power to the circ.

Is the circ working for the HW? Do you have HW. It might be in Domestic Hot Water priority.
No code on the aquastat?

Boiler is hot, house
is cold.

Display is ON.
TT-LED is ON.
C1 LED is ON.

Check 120 Vac at C1-C2. yes
check wiring to pump.
Wiring ok, is pump running?
If not, replace the pump.
If pump is running, check for
trapped air

Display is ON.
TT-LED is ON.
C1 LED is OFF.
ZC LED is ON.
Boiler below the Low Limit
temperature, wait for boiler to
go above Low Limit
temperature.

Display is ON.
TT-LED is ON.
ZC LED is OFF.
Boiler above LL? If yes, check
for 120 Vac between ZC and
L2.
If no 120 Vac, replace
controller.
If yes, check zone relays,
circulators and wiring
 

Last edited by lawrosa; 12-17-10 at 07:32 PM.
  #10  
Old 12-17-10, 07:26 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,538
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
Is this a 'professional' install? was it inspected?

This PDF file should help y'all...

http://customer.honeywell.com/techli...68-0281EFS.pdf
 
  #11  
Old 12-17-10, 09:35 PM
Z
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,652
Received 87 Likes on 81 Posts
hi Chauncey –

Originally Posted by Chauncey1874 View Post
...have noticed that no matter what I set either thermostat to during the day the temperature never gets above 64 degrees. However in the late afternoon the temp starts rising until it gets to the temp set on the thermostat, without me doing anything....
Just seems like your above observation sounds suspiciously like a Program Schedule that would keep the house cold during the day but warm it up at the end of the workday in time for people returning home.

Is there any way that when you are setting the thermostat up it’s actually following the Program Schedule that’s holding it down to 64 during the day and 70 other times? I forgot to hit HOLD on mine at times when I turned it up and wondered why the house got cold again. It automatically reverted back to my Program Schedule which was colder than I wanted. (Some of those little letters and icons on the screen are hard to see ,for me anyway). I got the smaller cheapy because I wanted small, but it only shows the current temp on the screen – not the set point. That’s why I didn’t notice the problem right away. But maybe yours is bigger and better?

But I guess anyway that wouldn’t explain why your round thermostat would have the same problem.

Well good luck !
 
  #12  
Old 12-30-10, 08:17 AM
C
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
update after HVAC tech visit

Recap:
Downstairs is controlled by Honeywell programmable thermostat.
Upstairs is controlled by Honeywell round thermostat.
Both upstairs and downstairs take hours and hours to warm up.
DHW works fine. Takes some seconds for hot water to reach the faucet, then water is hot.

I had the HVAC tech come out. He couldn't find anything wrong. He did something with the water into the boiler/pipes because he dumped out a bucket in the yard. He said if there is still an issue he will start “swapping parts out”.

Today as usual, the boiler has been on for 3 hours and the temperature upstairs and downstairs has only risen by 2 degrees. It's 64 degrees in the house. I have it set to 62 degrees overnight.

When the burner turns off, the Honeywell Aquastat reads 180 degrees, but the boiler gauge on the reads 170. Does the 10 degree difference matter? The burner turns on when the Aquastat reads 163 degrees but the gauge reads 153.

The burner stays on for 3 minutes, then off for about 10 minutes, repeats. I can hear the Circ pump this whole time during the call for heat.

The pipes in the basement do not have any insulation. I know this is not good, but could that make the boiler take hours to raise the house temp 2 degrees?

More pics:

PC300001 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

PC300002 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

PC300003 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Any ideas on getting my house to heat up faster?
 
  #13  
Old 12-30-10, 08:52 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,538
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
Is this a 'professional' install? was it inspected?
That install shows VERY poor workmanship, and that oil line in particular is just plain dangerous (and probably would not pass a code inspection)... who in their right mind would install an oil delivery line like that?

He said if there is still an issue he will start “swapping parts out”.
What an a55... is this the same guy that installed it? ...and how much did he charge you to tell you he couldn't find anything wrong? Do NOT let him spend any more of your money...

The fact that the boiler is getting up to temp means that it, and the controls on it are working fine... in spite of the awful way they are installed... (and probably would not pass a code inspection) honestly, who in their right mind would 'scatter' the controls and wiring across the top of the boiler like that?

Does the 10 degree difference matter?
No, not really... it simply means that either or both the thermostat or aquastat are a bit 'off', or they are measuring the temp in the boiler at different points. It is not uncommon for water inside a boiler to be cooler/hotter from one place to the next. NON ISSUE.

The pipes in the basement do not have any insulation. I know this is not good, but could that make the boiler take hours to raise the house temp 2 degrees?
No. You couldn't possibly be losing enough heat from the uninsulated pipes to make a noticeable difference such as you describe. If you did lose that much heat, the basement would be pretty durn hot... NON ISSUE

more...
 
  #14  
Old 12-30-10, 09:03 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,538
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
I scanned back through the thread... and didn't see that you mentioned what type of heat emitters are in the home... what have you got? Fin-tube baseboard? Radiators? in floor radiant? what?

If the boiler is HOT, and it reportedly is, and you can't heat the home, it can only mean that you either have no circulation of the hot water through the system, that you don't have enough heat emitters in the home to overcome the heat loss, or that those heat emitters are clogged up with dust/pet hair, covered with furniture, wall to wall carpeting stuffed under them, ... (if in floor radiant) inappropriate floor coverings are blocking the output, not enough radiant floor to overcome heat loss...

or some other reason that the heat isn't getting from the boiler into the home.

Circulator and zone valves all need to be checked for proper operation, checked that there is not an air blockage preventing circulation... etc etc...

Again, the problem is clearly NOT the boiler itself. It is HOT. But the house is NOT. The heat in the boiler is not being moved into the home, and that is where the effort needs to be focused.

Installed 2007, and worked the previous two winters with no problem?
 
  #15  
Old 12-30-10, 09:07 AM
C
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It was installed by the same HVAC tech and another tech. The new one took over the older one's business.

I thought it looked bad when they installed it, but I'm no expert, so I figured they knew what they were doing. I'm not sure if it was inspected. Who does the inspection? would there be a sticker somewhere?

I guess one of the first things I need to do is find another HVAC guy...
 
  #16  
Old 12-30-10, 09:11 AM
C
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It has always seemed a little cold, but really noticed it this winter because I am home. So maybe it has never worked correctly since install.
 
  #17  
Old 12-30-10, 11:11 AM
X
Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,455
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Ugh. Yet another example of how very good equipment in the hands of idiots can result in awful performance.

Yes, you need a new heating contractor. Don't call those knuckleheads any more.

There's a long list of stuff that's wrong or poor in this install, but let's first try to get the house to heat up.

Questions:

) what kind of heat emitters are in the house? Cast iron radiators? Copper/aluminum finned baseboard?

) do the heat emitters in all zones get warm or hot when the thermostat is calling for heat?

) how many stories is the house?

) what does the boiler pressure gauge say?

) do you hear any gurgling or rushing water sounds in the piping anywhere in the house?

) Where is the zone valve on the third zone? I see a zone valve for the indirect, and one zone valve on the far left zone on the manifold, but not the one on the far right. (The zone valves are those gold colored gizmos that say "Taco" on them.)

) When the thermostats are calling for heat, can you freely move the little lever on the zone valve? (This includes the indirect, since we're pretty sure that's working, so let's make sure.)

) when the boiler exhaust pipe enters the wall, where does it go?

) can you take a picture of the back of the boiler, i.e., stand to the right of the boiler and shoot along the wall so we can see the plumbing and venting stuff back there.


As to inspections, there likely would have been a plumbing and or electrical inspection by your town. The installer has the responsibility to obtain the required permits and have the inspections done. Your town records should show whether permits were ever obtained. (I doubt they were.) As Trooper mentioned, there are some issues here and this might not pass code. So maybe don't start calling the town. Bad code violations result in a 'red tag' and you don't have a boiler until it gets fixed. Among other things, you need some time to find a better heating contractor.
 
  #18  
Old 12-30-10, 01:39 PM
C
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
There's a long list of stuff that's wrong or poor in this install, but let's first try to get the house to heat up.
The house does eventually get to the temp on the thermostat, but it takes about 8-9 hours.

Questions:

)what kind of heat emitters are in the house? Cast iron radiators? Copper/aluminum finned baseboard?
Copper/aluminum finned baseboard. I did a quick check and the baseboard in the small bathroom upstairs only has the fins on half of the baseboard. Why would that be? Also on the first floor the fins are on the top. On the 2nd floor the fins are on the bottom. The upstairs was finished years after the house was built. All the baseboards need a good cleaning.

PC300017 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

PC300018 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

do the heat emitters in all zones get warm or hot when the thermostat is calling for heat?
Yes and the pipes that return the water are all hot.

how many stories is the house?
2 stories

what does the boiler pressure gauge say?
18 psi

do you hear any gurgling or rushing water sounds in the piping anywhere in the house?
I did right after the tech left, but haven’t heard any recently.

)Where is the zone valve on the third zone? I see a zone valve for the indirect, and one zone valve on the far left zone on the manifold, but not the one on the far right. (The zone valves are those gold colored gizmos that say "Taco" on them.)
It’s up high to the right.

PC300016 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

When the thermostats are calling for heat, can you freely move the little lever on the zone valve? (This includes the indirect, since we're pretty sure that's working, so let's make sure.)
The first and second floor lever move freely. I can only move the lever for the Hot water a little bit, but there is hot water.

)when the boiler exhaust pipe enters the wall, where does it go?
Outside, see pic above

can you take a picture of the back of the boiler, i.e., stand to the right of the boiler and shoot along the wall so we can see the plumbing and venting stuff back there.
PC300011 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

PC300013 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

PC300012 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

As Trooper said the boiler is hot and working ok. Now that I have looked at the baseboards, I wonder if there are enough. In most of the rooms the baseboards are only on one side. Like I have said I’ve noticed the cold more this winter because I’ve been home. Also, as I’ve gotten older I get colder more easily.
 

Last edited by NJT; 12-30-10 at 04:26 PM.
  #19  
Old 12-30-10, 04:34 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,538
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
There are two things that I see that potentially could cause problems with circulation:

First, look at your green circulator pump... see that "IFC" embossed on the side of the casting? That means the pump has an "Internal Flow Check" valve in it... SOMETIMES what happens with this type of pump when they are mounted vertically and pumping UP is that air gets trapped behind that flow check. With the pump full of air, it won't pump.

I don't think this is your problem because you said that the RETURN PIPE at the bottom of the boiler gets HOT! right? SO HOT THAT YOU CAN'T TOUCH IT FOR MORE THAN A SPLIT SECOND, yes? Nearly as HOT as the pipe going OUT on top?

The second thing that I see... and it's hard to tell sometimes in pictures... it appears that the pipe returning to the boiler is MUCH smaller than the supply side out of the boiler. Both of those manifolds and pipes need to be sized so that the proper flow can be maintained when ALL the zones are open.

What size tubing is the RED PEX ? WHAT TYPE OF TUBING is it? Read the lettering on the tubing and tell us what it says.

more...
 
  #20  
Old 12-30-10, 04:43 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,538
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
I did a quick check and the baseboard in the small bathroom upstairs only has the fins on half of the baseboard. Why would that be?
Whoever installed the baseboard felt that it would be enough to heat the room... perhaps in error.

Also on the first floor the fins are on the top. On the 2nd floor the fins are on the bottom.
Depending on the manufacturer, the 'return' pipe in the loop could be on top or bottom. Sometimes you won't see the second pipe inside the cabinet because it will continue on into the next room. What you have is a way to run the supply and return up and back from one location.

All the baseboards need a good cleaning.
You will be surprised at how much even a thin layer of dust can cut down the heat output from fin-tube baseboard. They rely heavily on air moving through the cabinet. All the covers must be in place when in operation for this to happen... but DO get a brush and a vacuum cleaner and give them a good twice over.

While you are doing that, MEASURE the footage of JUST the fin-tube part on each zone. Tell us how much finned element you have installed on each.
 
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: