Wood/Oil HS TARM OT 35 Boiler

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Old 12-29-10, 03:33 PM
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Wood/Oil HS TARM OT 35 Boiler

HI Guys, A Newbie here to a keyboard and your site. I ran across the article on HS TARM web site asking if any one still uses this boiler or anything close? I put this system in, in 78 when I built the house. I realize the stack temp has to be 250 deg. or so to eliminate the creosote/ chimney fire problem. I'm using a masonry 2 story chimney. I've tried all the powders chimney logs, potato peels,and the chimney was cleaned every month, nothing works, The fire is small enough in the boiler that you can't get away from the creosote problem. Any Ideas? Would a metal chimney be the answer? Burning oil so far this year 3.00 Gal cant do this much longer. Burned 15 f cord last yr. But yet another chimney fire. wife says no more wood. Can any one help? Thank you for your time. Dave
 
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Old 12-29-10, 04:14 PM
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I'm thinking perhaps a chimney LINER ? Sounds like the boiler is way oversized for the load, requiring the smaller fires?

I found this informative page that might provide some info for you:

Sweep's Library - Why do I need a stainless steel chimney liner?
 

Last edited by NJT; 12-29-10 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 12-29-10, 04:27 PM
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I think a metal liner might be good on general principles - but I'd expect creosote build-up and possible future chimney fires to continue even with a new, metal liner. The metal liner will help protect the existing chimney/liner.

Are you using an unlined masonry chimney? Hopefully, it has a liner of some sort, possibly tile?

Do you get your chimney periodically cleaned and inspected? If not, that would be the first step, I think. If you burn 34 cords of wood per year, plus oil, I think annually would be prudent.
 
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Old 12-29-10, 04:51 PM
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the chimney was cleaned every month,
psssst.... hey Mike! he said this... but you didn't hear it from me!
 
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Old 12-29-10, 05:05 PM
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OK, thanks. Me bad.

If the chimney is cleaned every month, I wonder how there should be a creosote build up? You're not burning pine or other such wood?
 
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Old 12-29-10, 05:15 PM
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I was wondering too... but it's probably the small low temp fire that he has to run to keep the house warm... I don't know if there's a solution for that which won't waste fuel... like a baseboard run on the outside of the house or something foolish like that.

I realize the stack temp has to be 250 deg. or so to eliminate the creosote/ chimney fire problem.
I thought it was more like THREE 50 ? No? and remember too... this is the temp that must exist ALL THE WAY TO THE TOP of the chimney! So depending on how much heat is lost while the flue gases travel UP... you could be looking at SIGNIFICANTLY cooler exit temps... this is the main reason that you often see masonry chimneys fail at the TOP first... that's where the condensation and the resultant damage occurs.
 
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Old 12-29-10, 05:38 PM
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A metal liner, with a smaller cross-sectional area than your present liner(?), will keep the flue gas at a bit higher temp as it exits.

Sorry for this question: Why are you burning 15 cords of wood per year, and putting it through your 30+ year-old oil-fired flue? Is it a political/environmental statement or based soley on economics? How much do you pay to clean your chimney every month? Is it a thorough cleaning?

You're in Michigan, yet without natural gas - your're presumably out in the country? What do your neighbors burn, if not wood like you? Oil or propane?
 

Last edited by Mike Speed 30; 12-29-10 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 12-29-10, 06:05 PM
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Hey dirt guy34 I also heat with wood, a Buderus 140,000 Btu boiler. I heat 2350 square feet, I was burning 9 full cords of wood a year (4X4X8). I don't have chimney fires, I clean my pipes and chimney about every two months, and I burn anything that makes ashes.

An old Indian trick to keep the creasote out of your chimney Is to burn one aluminum pop can a day, can also use a barley pop can. I was at a guys house and he showed me his inside boiler and the fire box was so full of creasote I told him he must have chimney fires. He said he has none with the pop can a day. I do not use the pop can a day and have no fires. I would bet you have already heard of the pop can a day trick.

I would bet it is how you have the boilers plumbed together, and the method you are firing. I have looked at the tarm web site and did not like the method they suggested to plumb together two boilers.

The method I use to plumb two boilers together works, but not like I want it to, so I am in the process of improving the plumbing and electrical. The plumbing and electrical will be done this spring.
 
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Old 12-29-10, 07:30 PM
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Hs tarm ot 35

First off thanks for all the feed back so quick. The OT 35 is a combination wood and oil unit you can burn wood or oil or both. Never heard of the alum can trick. Interesting. How long has he been doing it?? I do all the cleaning Laid off this time of year up here. Yes Michigan. I cut and only use hard wood no pine, I wont put oak in until its a cold day where the auto damper wont close on me causing it to smolder an make creosote. Also wood has cured min of 1.5 years and the oak, Min of 2yrs. Also no papers burned. Neighbors have out door boilers old style not the new Gasification type. The chimney is 8x 12 tile lined. I see according to the one site NJ Trooper suggested, the flue is too large. Looks like maybe a ss liner??? Thanks again Dave
 
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Old 12-29-10, 08:21 PM
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Looks like maybe a ss liner?
Sounds like it... I spent some time poking around that site and there is a lot of very good info there.

Like anything that sounds too good to be true, I'm skeptical of the pop can trick, but I'm pretty much skeptical of anything these days! It's worth some research I suppose... and that research should include answers to the question: Why does it work? Show me the science and perhaps I won't be so skeptical!
 
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Old 12-30-10, 06:19 AM
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Like anything that sounds too good to be true, I'm skeptical of the pop can trick, but I'm pretty much skeptical of anything these days! It's worth some research I suppose... and that research should include answers to the question: Why does it work? Show me the science and perhaps I won't be so skeptical![/QUOTE]

The guy that told me of the pop can a day was buying a chimney sweep compound at the local hardware store where his friend was an employee. One day the employee friend told him that he felt bad about selling him something he did not need. He then told him that the chimney sweep had the same ingrediants that make up aluminum. He should try a pop can a day. I told my neighbor of the pop can a day and he uses it. The pop can a day works for these two people and I have heard of others. That is a little proof, dirtman34 might make so much creasote that it might not work for him. Use the pop can a day, put a light in the bottom of the chimney and go on the roof and look down. Do this once a week for a while and if you don't like the results stop using the pop can a day. I don't sell pop cans.

When I bought my first welding machine I did not need to know what made the machine work. All I needed to know was how to turn the machine on and how to adjust the amperage to get the desired results. Some machines weld better than others I did not need to know what made the difference. If something works, use it, if it doesn't work try another method or product.
 
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Old 12-30-10, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by dirtguy34 View Post
First off thanks for all the feed back so quick. The OT 35 is a combination wood and oil unit you can burn wood or oil or both. Never heard of the alum can trick. Interesting. How long has he been doing it?? I do all the cleaning Laid off this time of year up here. Yes Michigan. I cut and only use hard wood no pine, I wont put oak in until its a cold day where the auto damper wont close on me causing it to smolder an make creosote. Also wood has cured min of 1.5 years and the oak, Min of 2yrs. Also no papers burned. Neighbors have out door boilers old style not the new Gasification type. The chimney is 8x 12 tile lined. I see according to the one site NJ Trooper suggested, the flue is too large. Looks like maybe a ss liner??? Thanks again Dave
I am not familar at all with a combination wood oil boiler. I would think that it would have a seperate flu for wood and another seperate one for the oil side. I am betting it shares the same flu. The pop can a day was told to me by a guy in Wisconsin 20 years ago, how long he had been using that method I do not know, does he still use it I do not know. My neighbor has used it for the last 20 years and still uses it. He has a wood stove, not a boiler. Since he started using the pop can a day he has never been on his roof again.

NJ Trooper gave me a site that might be of benefit to you, there are a couple of pages that give information on problems and solutions and a page on chimneys and flue sizing. There might be other pages that might give you ideas also. I know it will not all pertain to you. 404 Not Found

I read the site above on stainless steel chimney liners and I wonder if all their information was put together under all weather conditions. Like a calm or high wind or low wind or no wind with cold rain and different barometric pressures. And I am sure there are more situtations. I bet it is a real trick to keep chimney or stack temperature the same from the boiler to the top of the chimney. I don't think anyone can operate their home heating system the way the manufactures sugest even if they had a man on duty 24 hours a day. All you can do is what works best for you to keep your house warm and not burn the house down. And if you have to make changes.
 
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Old 12-30-10, 08:04 AM
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The page NJ Trooper gave me did not work so I will try again
http://www.buderus.us/files/20100122...0618151-01.pdf

Read through it, lots of goog information.
 
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Old 12-30-10, 09:01 AM
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I see your online

Yes only one outlet. IF your interested there is a pic of the unit on HS TARM web site scroll down to #7 Anyone still using the OT 35 Click on, scroll down to #1 entry, {picture} By XRing 3/26/08. This is the exact unit I have {only prettyure}. I'm burning approx 16" face cords. So I'm 3 cord to your one,and heating 2240sq ft. 2 story, plus 1280 heated gar. tot 3520. The garage is set up for a wild zone so if the fire gets too hot it dumps into a BIG Modine Radiator in gar.
 
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Old 12-30-10, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by dirtguy34 View Post
Yes only one outlet. IF your interested there is a pic of the unit on HS TARM web site scroll down to #7 Anyone still using the OT 35 Click on, scroll down to #1 entry, {picture} By XRing 3/26/08. This is the exact unit I have {only prettyure}. I'm burning approx 16" face cords. So I'm 3 cord to your one,and heating 2240sq ft. 2 story, plus 1280 heated gar. tot 3520. The garage is set up for a wild zone so if the fire gets too hot it dumps into a BIG Modine Radiator in gar.
I feel it is too hard to maintain a certain temperature in your wood boiler all day, and not get a creasote build up in your boiler. You have to stoke the fire depending on the outside temperature. What I have always done is get a fire started in the morning and warm the house up, keep it warm if the outside temperature is way cold. If not too cold outside the fire will die out and another fire will be started in the evening to get the house back up to temperature before we go to bed. When my zone valves were working correctly we could stoke up the fire at night and the next morning the house would be 68 or so and we would have hot coals so you would not need to strike a match. If it was -20 the night before you could even see 62 or 64 in the house the next morning. I don't mind a little discomfort if it means not buying oil. The last oil I bought was $2.00 a gal back in 2005.

I have a hot water unit heater hanging in my garage but I never finished off the garage so the heater never got plumbed in. Your winters can't be much milder in Michigan than they are in Minnesota, looks like I burn a little more wood than you, and you heat a little more floor space. My wild zone as you called it was my largest zone in the house, but with non working zone valves I don't need a wild zone.

I don't have any solutions for you but over on the optonal fuels thread there is a member from MA. Esalman who has a combo boiler also. It would be interesting to know what he does and if he has any problems.
 
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