installing zone valves

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Old 01-09-11, 09:01 AM
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installing zone valves

Hi everyone first time here and my first post.. Well i want to have a 3 zone heating system, i have a baseboard heat and trying to get everything together to start the project. I am looking at buying the taco z075c2-1 zone valves (51.99 each). The big problem i have is on my first floor i have mono flow t's and the second floor i have straight 3/4 copper no t's, and im adding heat to a room on the first floor on its on zone 3/4 straight copper so do i just install another normal T in the return line like the second floor was? So if anyone needs more info or pics let me know thanks.
 
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Old 01-09-11, 09:16 AM
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Yes, pictures first...

Why do you want to zone?

Your plan is to make just one room it's own zone? (in addition to the other two zones?)
 
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Old 01-09-11, 09:31 AM
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i have a pellet stove that heats the hole first floor about 1200 sq ft so i have shut off valves one the first floor, and the second floor about 1000 sq ft is only on at night to heat upstairs. I have an addition on the back of the house when i bought the house that never had heat in it so i ran copper to it already and waiting to hook up, so that will be on its on zone. I will add pics a little later thanks
 
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Old 01-09-11, 01:34 PM
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Old 01-09-11, 06:56 PM
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Im basically asking for a piping diagram and if the zone valves i listed are ok to use.
 
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Old 01-09-11, 08:30 PM
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Here's a link to the ALBUM...

Pictures by vtshudy - Photobucket

easier than flipping back and forth...

I can't see enough in those few pics to give any advice really... we need enough pics to get a mental image of the whole system... the way it all fits together. You need to step back with the camera and get some shots from various angles that allow us to see how the whole thing is piped.

How big is the addition? How many feet of baseboard?

The problem that often arises when running zones for just one room is that the boiler will end up 'short cycling' because there isn't enough load on it...
 
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Old 01-10-11, 03:10 PM
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ok i will try later tonight to get the pics but im in a half basement the rest is a crawl space, it looks like a mess of pipes with some soft copper and sticking a water heater next to it but i will take pics later, but i can tell u the addition is 28 ft of baseboard not including the run to the room and back.
 
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Old 01-10-11, 04:29 PM
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Did you do a heat loss calc on the new room in order to determine the correct amount of baseboard to install?

28 feet is around 15K BTU output. If that happens to be the only zone that calls for heat you may end up with short cycles on the burner...

By the way, you said 3/4" piping? What I see in the pics looks like ONE INCH to me...

Do the best you can with the pics... anything will help visualize...

Is there another RELIEF VALVE somewhere on that boiler? The only one that I see is the red one to the right of the boiler, next to your pressure reducing valve. That valve is likely not a 'proper' relief valve by today's standards...
 

Last edited by NJT; 03-09-11 at 04:30 PM.
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Old 01-10-11, 06:23 PM
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no the room is a 12x18 with vaulted ceilings about 12 ft.

yea it comes out of the boiler with 1" then splits to 2 pipes with 1" for a few feet then reduces to 3/4 for the entire second floor, the first floor has 3/4 then at the flo t's go to 1/2 baseboard.

No thats the only relief valve, yea i dont know if it is, just that i had to replace it because it was leaking and i put in a back flow preventer because there wasnt one. Also the boiler haD a domestic coil but got rid of it for a electric water heater. getting pics now
 
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Old 01-10-11, 07:53 PM
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3 new pics let me know if there is an area i can get a better shot at

Pictures by vtshudy - Photobucket
 
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Old 01-11-11, 04:34 PM
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no the room is a 12x18 with vaulted ceilings about 12 ft.
Depending on the construction (air tightness and insulation, number of windows, etc) I would think that you have way more than enough baseboard installed... what could happen (and probably will) is that when that room calls for heat the thermostat will be satisfied before the boiler gets 'up to temperature'. In other words, you will be able to heat the room with much less than the 180 water that the rest of the home might require. This has it's pluses and it's minuses...

going to look at pics now...
 
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Old 01-11-11, 04:40 PM
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In the first pic... I believe I can see the domestic coil pipes out the side of the boiler on the left... and they appear to be capped off. Most manufacturers recommend NOT capping them when they are abandoned. There can be an issue with pressure building inside the coil if they are capped. I've never heard of anyone having a problem that way, but just so's ya know what is recommended. Myself would loosen the cap so that any pressure build-up can vent.

Also, the return pipe coming down to the pump... there is a drain valve teed off that pipe... it appears that you have a brass hose cap on that drain valve... good idea because if it leaks it looks like it will drip on the burner. If my eyes are jivin' me and you don't have that capped, then do so.
 
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Old 01-11-11, 06:48 PM
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k so what do u think i should do??? the room is built with 2x6 and insulated well there was pics of the construction the last owner gave me.. Yea there is a hose cap on the drain tee thanks good eye. Not sure why but looks like a mess of pipe that needs to be organized a little. Thought i would come out of the boiler with 1" and have like a manifold with 3 outputs of 3/4. and then bring the return back for the one addition and tee it with the other return line. Not sure if i should have a shutoff b all valve before or after the zone valve? Also are the taco sentry z075c2-1 a good zalve to use in my application?
 
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Old 01-11-11, 06:58 PM
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So, I guess that the answer to the question you asked is:

do i just install another normal T in the return line like the second floor was?
Yes, basically that is correct. I myself would take the opportunity to 'clean up' some of the piping, and install manifolds for the supply and return. I would install them in such a way as to make replacement of the boiler really easy... just cut out the old and splice the new one in... and judging by the age of yours... that day is soon... or maybe not, I guess it could go another 50 years with some luck.
 
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Old 01-12-11, 04:21 PM
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k so what do u think i should do??? the room is built with 2x6 and insulated well there was pics of the construction the last owner gave me.. Yea there is a hose cap on the drain tee thanks good eye. Not sure why but looks like a mess of pipe that needs to be organized a little. Thought i would come out of the boiler with 1" and have like a manifold with 3 outputs of 3/4. and then bring the return back for the one addition and tee it with the other return line. Not sure if i should have a shutoff b all valve before or after the zone valve? Also are the taco sentry z075c2-1 a good zalve to use in my application?
 
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Old 01-12-11, 04:54 PM
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Is the addition like totally separate from the rest of the living space? or is it 'open' with good air exchange? If it were open, I might just consider adding it onto another zone to avoid the short cycle possibility.

I think you posted your previous reply while I was typing one of mine! and it looks like we are thinking alike...

In general, one would want two pipes of some size to feed the next size up... rule of thumb... so two 3/4" into one 1" ... that would keep the flow velocity under control.

But, what are the odds of all three zones ever calling for heat at the same time?

Still, to 'make it right', you would want to use 1-1/4" in and out of the boiler to the three 3/4" ... I believe you could probably 'get away with' keeping it at 1" though.

As I recall though, isn't the pipe in and out of the boiler ALREADY 1-1/4" ?

As for valving and such, the best thing you can do is study, study, study... go to different boiler manufacturer websites and download the install manuals. Look at the piping diagrams that they show... learn the purpose of the various valves so that you understand what you need to do... I mean, we could give you a fish, and you wouldn't be hungry... for a day... or you could teach yourself to fish... know what I mean?
 
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Old 01-12-11, 04:58 PM
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Yer gonna wait till spring to do this, right?

Winter in Vermont is NOT the time to be making changes to a boiler system!
 
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Old 01-15-11, 08:15 AM
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yea not sure about pipe size i will check it out. I looked at them and thought they were best on power use. haha i dont plan on doing it before the temps get above 20 haha. .I live in pa outside of philly.
 
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Old 01-15-11, 06:29 PM
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I am not familiar with that valve... it's pretty new on the market, maybe 2 years or so? I don't think I would choose a zone valve based on the energy they use... they only use power when they are open, and then it's really not a lot.

OK... PA ... I guessed wrong that VT at the beginning of your nick meant you were in Vermont! It's still too cold!
 
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Old 03-08-11, 05:07 PM
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installing zone valves

im about to make 2 more zones in my home here is a pic let me know if i am missing anything or have suggestings thanks

Pictures by vtshudy - Photobucket
 
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Old 03-09-11, 04:11 AM
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Tread Carefully, you have a monoflow system.
Anything you change can dramatically affect the system performance greatly.
 
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Old 03-09-11, 10:14 AM
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the first floor only has the mono flow so maybe get ride of them ? But does the pic i made work or am i missing something ?
 
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Old 03-09-11, 11:52 AM
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The first thing to consider is how many btu's is the current boiler? Make/model? What size nozzle?
What type of heat emmitters? If finned B/B how many total ft of finned section only?
How many more ft are you adding to the addition?



Once you give this info the BTU crunchers will chime in a give you good advice.
 
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Old 03-09-11, 03:33 PM
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its a crown boiler with a beckett burner with i think .7 nozzel. the domestic coil has been capped off. do u want to know the total amount of baseboard in each zone?
 
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Old 03-09-11, 04:05 PM
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do u want to know the total amount of baseboard in each zone?
Total all together. And what are you adding? Thats the finned part only, not bare copper.

Whats the model # on the boiler.
 
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Old 03-09-11, 04:17 PM
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wp-900 (very old haha) about 136 feet
 
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Old 03-09-11, 04:27 PM
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I might suggest that helpers go back to the beginning of this thread for the history. I've merged it onto this new thread of the same name.
 
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Old 03-09-11, 04:35 PM
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Ohh... Thought it was a new thread.. I see the OP is asking what was already posted previously. Sorry did not know.

Mike NJ
 
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Old 03-09-11, 04:40 PM
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So does my pic on how im going to pipe it be ok? And now im nervous about the mono flow zone is it going to be a problem? Where do i put the air seperator at in the diagram? Do i need a controller to connect the zone valves to?
 
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Old 03-09-11, 05:01 PM
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Very basically, yes the diagram is the general idea.

And now im nervous
Probably because you didn't do your homework assignment!
A couple months ago it was recommended:

As for valving and such, the best thing you can do is study, study, study... go to different boiler manufacturer websites and download the install manuals. Look at the piping diagrams that they show... learn the purpose of the various valves so that you understand what you need to do... I mean, we could give you a fish, and you wouldn't be hungry... for a day... or you could teach yourself to fish... know what I mean?
Ya see, boiler systems should be looked at as exactly that, a SYSTEM. All the pieces have a purpose, and you should know all those purposes. It really isn't as simple as throwing some new copper and valves at the thing and expecting it to all play nice together.

Where do i put the air seperator at in the diagram? Do i need a controller to connect the zone valves to?
These are questions that were part of your homework !

And I'm gonna guess that you still don't have a proper relief valve installed?

If it was my system, and/or job, I would start by designing a system, and when that was done, I would probably get out my sawzall and have at it on the piping. I'm guessing that 90% of the near boiler piping would go away. I would do this in order that when I had my new zones piped up and the boiler bit the big one, all I would have to do is loosen a few unions, pull the old boiler out, and slide in a new one.
 
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Old 03-09-11, 05:23 PM
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i was checking things out and got honeywell zone valves and im trying to draw how i wont the system to look like, i put the pic in my photobucket page. Some people say i should change the steal tank to a small blader tank. Woundering if the system would be more efficent if i got rid of the mono flow on the first floor? some things i cant find on the inernet because i dont have the normal install, so asking the pros for any info would be great.

also what is wrong with the relief valve on there??
 

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