Type L or M copper pipe?

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  #1  
Old 01-09-11, 10:44 AM
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Type L or M copper pipe?

Can someone tell me what type of copper pipe I should use for heating and why?

Thanks
 
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Old 01-09-11, 10:50 AM
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Old 01-09-11, 11:20 AM
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This is what I read....

For radiant panel and hydronic heating and for snow melting systems, use Type L soft temper where coils are formed in place or prefabricated, Type M where straight lengths are used. For water heating and low-pressure steam, use Type M for all sizes. For condensate return lines, Type L is successfully used.


 
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Old 01-09-11, 11:26 AM
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Of course this is only copper. That was your question. You can also use pex(plastic pipe)

PEX Tubing , ThermaPEX PEX Tubing , Radiant Heat PEX Tubing , Wirsbo PEX Tubing , Radiant Heat - PexSupply.com

Which tubing is best to use for hydronic heating applications such as baseboard?
For baseboard and other hydronic heating applications you will want to use either oxygen barrier PEX or PEX-AL-PEX tubing (the aluminum core acts an oxygen barrier). In most applications oxygen barrier PEX (such as ThermaPEX or hePEX) will be used. However, PEX-AL-PEX, because of its ability to hold its shape, is often used. Both of these products are able to withstand temperatures up to 200 F. The oxygen barrier will prevent rusting of cast iron components in your system.

Mike NJ
 
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Old 01-09-11, 11:36 AM
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How much of a price difference is there between copper and pex?
 
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Old 01-09-11, 12:25 PM
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100 ft pex

A1140750 - Uponor (Wirsbo) A1140750 - 3/4" hePEX plus - (100 ft. coil)

Plus tool

CRIMPTOOL - HydroPEX CRIMPTOOL - 15" Crimp-All (3/8"-3/4") Combo Tool Kit

Rings

HCRIMP07 - HydroPEX HCRIMP07 - 3/4" PEX Crimp Ring

Lets say $250

Copper X 10

Cerro 3/4 in. x 10 ft. Copper Type M Hard Temper Straight Pipe - 3/4 M 10 at The Home Depot

fittings x 50

NIBCO 3/4 in. x 3/4 in. Copper 90-Degree Cup x Cup Pressure Elbow - C607 at The Home Depot

x25

NIBCO 3/4 in. Copper Pressure Slip Coupling - C601 at The Home Depot

Flux, solder, emery, b tank.

Lets say $400.

Labor??? Pex probably install 1/2 the time of copper and less joints. You will still have to solder pex adapters on the heat elements but could probably just use a map gas hand held torch.

Mike NJ
 
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Old 01-09-11, 05:42 PM
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hi guys -

Mike you're the expert but isn't type "M" disallowed in some localities because it's too thin walled- and they require type "L"?

Thought I heard that anyway.
 
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Old 01-09-11, 11:01 PM
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OK, so the thinner wall copper heats faster or better but does it make sense or is it worth the risk to use thin wall? Won't it puncture easier/faster? Does it heat that much better? If it heats better because of the thin wall why didn't they use thinner steel pipes in the past?
 
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Old 01-10-11, 04:41 AM
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Type L must be used in certain areas, it's wise to use it only.
Type M can erode under the constant flow that we have in hydronics.
L is usually used in DHW recirc lines for this same reason.

If you velocities get up there you may have problems in years.
 
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Old 01-10-11, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by TOHeating View Post
...Type M can erode under the constant flow that we have in hydronics....
Never would have thought of that! That's why this forum is great. Filing that in my database
 
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Old 01-10-11, 03:35 PM
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I know that the copper tube in baseboards is very thin... probably type M, but I've never measured it. I like to use L for any 'exposed' piping simply to prevent damage.

Last year the widder lady next door called me about a problem... her carpet upstairs was making 'sloshing' noises... and there was no heat upstairs... turns out that where the installers brought the return pipe in one of her baseboards back inside the cabinet, it was rubbing ever so slightly on one of the brackets. Expansion and contraction of the pipe over about a 5 year time period eventually wore a hole right through that type M... it would have worn through L, or even K... eventually... I guess... but M is real thin stuff.
 
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Old 01-10-11, 04:05 PM
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I've had enough of this.
I'm using this piping for a steam conversion. I will be adding about 3 lengths of copper piping to existing steel piping. I figure there will be a $20 difference between the thin wall and the thicker wall L pipe. I'm just going to use the thicker wall pipe to be safe.
 
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Old 01-10-11, 04:09 PM
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Steam is a beast on it's own.
When fittings are schedule 80, I don't usually screw around.
I would be hesitant to use copper on steam unless I welded the joints.
 
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Old 01-10-11, 04:41 PM
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I'm sorry, I meant to say a hot water conversion from steam.
 
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Old 01-10-11, 05:15 PM
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I've had enough of this.
And what is that supposed to mean? You don't like the answers?
 
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Old 01-10-11, 05:30 PM
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The answers are fine.
I've had enough of this.
means that I'm not going to fuss over the $20 difference and that I'm going to go buy the thicker pipe tomorrow and finish this. Thanks all for the comments.

Originally Posted by NJ Trooper View Post
And what is that supposed to mean? You don't like the answers?
 
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