Hydronic Circulator Pump gone bad?

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Old 01-16-11, 05:51 PM
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Hydronic Circulator Pump gone bad?

Hey all,
New Homeowner here and am slowly learning the vast amount of knowledge to "do it yourself"

I grew up with my dad fixing 99% of the issues in the house and want to continue that tradition!

Forgive my lack of knowledge in this area but again i am new and want to learn. I may have terms wrong and probably have no clue what im talking about but I really want to learn this stuff.

We have hot water baseboard heating in the house with 3 zones.

The family room was an addition to the house and has a hard time staying warm. I cleaned the baseboards with alchohol and water and raised them a little off the carpet(they were resting right on it preventing air flow). This seemed to help a little but I notice my Hydronic Circulator Pump? is not working the way it should. It makes a lot of noise and leaks water.

At first it would just drip a little into a bucket the previous owners had sitting there. Now it leaks a ton of water and actually sprays it out of the thing.

Here is some pictures of my setup in the basement.



The red one is the one that is acting up. Im hoping that replacing this one will get my heat working again the way it should. I know there are many factors involved with keeping the heat in the house and I will be replacing the windows in the next year or so but for now I just want the baseboards to work the way they should.

Im sorry this is so long of a post but Im hoping one of you knowledgeable people can help me out here. What kind of pump do I need to replace this? I have been looking online but am not 100% sure of what im looking for.

is one of these what I want? Amazon.com: Hydronic Circulator Pump

Thanks in advance for any help!
 
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Old 01-16-11, 07:35 PM
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That pump is a Bell & Gossett Series 100 apparently... and you may find some interesting reading here (click the links on the page):

SERIES 100 THREE-PIECE, OIL LUBRICATED BOOSTER PUMP - Bell & Gossett world leader in supplying the Heating/Ventilating/Air Conditioning (HVAC) industry.

You MAY be able to replace it with a newer style pump such as the Taco 007-F5 but without knowing a bit more about the system I wouldn't want to say definitely... it's a pretty good chance though.

This link takes you to a 'how to' repair manual:

Fluid Handling

Parts for that pump are available here, this link is for the 'bearing assembly' which is probably what is bad on your pump. You may need motor mounts also, and always replace the coupler as well.:

Bearing assembly

Coupler

Motor mounts


You WILL have to drain the system to do this work unless there are valves that you can isolate the pump with... I don't see any in the pics... but they are too close up to tell. Pull back with the camera and let us see the whole system.
 
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Old 01-16-11, 07:36 PM
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By the way, that wiring needs to be fixed up...

Take a look at the dataplate on the pump... tell us everything on the plate.
 
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Old 01-17-11, 07:17 AM
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NJ Trooper,
Thanks for all the info! You sure know alot about this stuff

here is some pictures of my system :
the first pic is the first floor system and the red one on the right is the pump going bad
the second pic is the 2nd floor system on the left there




I would rather replace the old one with a new one, especially considering the cost difference but I also want to do this the right way.

I know the wiring needs some cleaning up.. I am hoping to get this whole system working right and put together the way it should very soon

Im going to take a look at the dataplate when i get home
 
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Old 01-17-11, 08:08 AM
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I found the model number on the face plate
this is the model I have
106189 - Bell & Gossett 106189 - 1/12 HP, Series 100 NFI Circulator Pump
 
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Old 01-17-11, 04:16 PM
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It looks like from what I can see in the pics that pump is connected to a single zone, one piece of 3/4" pipe... what is it feeding? baseboards? how many feet of element? I'm thinking that you would do just fine with a 007-F5 for a LOT less money, and it will save you some electricity. It will bolt in place of the old pump...

It seems that you will have to at least partially drain the system... I can't see any shutoff valves BELOW the pump... Is there one hiding there? I think there is one above it though?
 
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Old 01-17-11, 05:12 PM
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It is a baseboard heating system. I would estimate about 80ft of pipe for this one zone.

I dont see a valve underneath the unit so yes i will be able to shut off the top one but then drain the bottom correct?

If you think the 007-F5 would do the trick i will order that this week and attempt to install it. I have found a few videos that show how this is done so I should be ok with that

there is also the Taco 008-F6 that ive been looking at.. seems to have a little more power

Thanks again for all the help
 
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Old 01-17-11, 07:05 PM
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I would estimate about 80ft of pipe for this one zone.
How much of that is actual finned element would ya guess? 65' or less?

===========================

The object is to drain as little as possible to get the job done.

I dont see a valve underneath the unit so yes i will be able to shut off the top one but then drain the bottom correct?
Well... sorta... you would want to close the valves above BOTH zones. They are probably what are called 'gate valves', so they probably will still drip when you close them. Don't try to get them to shut off all the way if they do drip, because you might not get them open again... the 'gate' is a wedge and can get stuck on old valves. So just snug them down and don't worry about the dripping.

Thing is though, since you can't close the OTHER pipe, the SUPPLY out of the boiler, you will also get some water coming out that way as well. But you see those two RED cross shaped things? Those are 'flow control', or 'flow check' valves. they only let water go one way. So they will tend to stop the water from coming out of the zones also. Like the gate valves, they won't seal up 100%.

A little more about those... there is a handle on top. In normal operation, that handle should be turned all the way CLOCKWISE. So check that first. If they are not all the way clockwise you should turn them in. If there is any corrosion on the stem of those valves, clean it off before you turn them, that corrosion can cause leak at the stem.

You also need to close the valve on the line that feeds water into the boiler.

You only need to drain the water in the boiler about halfway full... only need to get it below the level of the bottom of the pump.

Next, you see the brass can on top of the green 'air scoop' that the expansion tank is hanging from? On top of that is a small valve that looks like a tire valve. That brass can is an 'automatic float type air valve'... probably a 'Maid-O-Mist #67". In NORMAL operation, that cap on top must be left LOOSE to allow air to escape. Those vents tend to leak... and yours appears to have some greenish corrosion on top and may be, or has been leaking. The cap may be screwed tight if that's the case.

So, I would recommend that you pick one of those up also. Change it while you've got the system pressure down. In fact, if you open the drain, then remove that vent, the boiler will drain faster because it will be able to suck air as the boiler is draining.

Another thing to do before you pressure the system back up... check the air charge in the gray expansion tank. On the bottom is a standard tire valve (schraeder valve)... when the system is drained, put an accurate tire gauge on that valve and if there is not 12 PSI in the tank, add air to the tank to get 12 PSI.

===========================

Now... when you've got the new pump installed, and the new air vent with the cap LOOSE, BEFORE YOU OPEN THE VALVES above the pump, SLOWLY turn on the valve that feeds water into the boiler. As the boiler fills, you will hear AIR coming out that vent. You need to fill SLOWLY, because of where the water fill is in relation to that vent. You need the air to PASS THE WATER IN THE PIPE to the boiler... water going into boiler, air from boiler coming back up the same pipe and out the vent. When the air stops coming out the vent, you should see 12 PSI on the boiler gauge.

Now OPEN the valves above the pumps. Leave the handles on the RED flow control valves clockwise.

When you start the system back up, you will hear air bubbling around the system. Don't worry about that ... it will slowly find it's way out the vent.

I've probably forgotten something... but read through this several times and get a mental idea of what you need to do...

OH, the two bolts on the pump flanges... pull them down alternately... you want those flanges parallel to each other... a little on one, a little on the other... don't tighten one all the way, then the other...
 
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Old 01-18-11, 11:30 AM
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Yes it would be less than 65' of finned element

I will order the 007-F5 if you think it will work well for my setup, unless you think the Taco 008-F6 would be better.

and thanks for the walk through of how to drain the pipes and install the pump.. I have read over it a few times and plan on doing so while working on it
 
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Old 01-18-11, 02:25 PM
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I'm sure the 007 will be fine. The 008 is used more for what they call 'high head' applications. I pumped my whole house with a single 007 for about 20 years... no problem.

If you can't find the Maid-O-Mist, this Taco vent will work also:

400-4 - Taco 400-4 - 1/8" Hy-Vent

This Watts also:

0590715 - Watts 0590715 - 1/8" FV4 Auto Air Vent

Here's the pump at a good price:

007-F5 - Taco 007-F5 - 007 Cast Iron Circulator, 1/25 HP

These guys are pretty quick to ship... if you are in the northeast, you should have the stuff in a day or two.
 
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Old 01-30-11, 03:12 PM
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Im finally working on this but am having some issues

No water is getting into the expansion tank! Every connection leading up to it is flowing water but nothing is getting into the tank

any ideas?
thanks
 
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Old 01-30-11, 04:02 PM
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Not sure why you want water in the expansion tank?

When a bladder type tank is properly charged with 12 PSI on the air side, there won't be any water in the tank until the pressure on the water side goes above 12 PSI. That's the way they are supposed to work.

When the system is COLD, and the pressure is at 12 PSI on the boiler, the expansion tank is empty of water. As the boiler heats the water, the water expands. It needs a place to go... that's the reason for the tank. You can't compress water, but you can compress air. The tank provides that air 'cushion' in order to control the pressure in the system.

When you heat water from about room temp to 180 it will expand in volume a bit under 4%. So, if you have say 25 gallons in your system at room temp, you will have about 26 gallons at 180. That 1 gallon will end up in the tank, only when the boiler is HOT.
 
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Old 01-30-11, 04:06 PM
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Did you get the pump installed OK ?
 
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Old 01-31-11, 05:50 PM
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Pretty good 'structions there Troop. You've learned well, Grasshopper.
 
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Old 01-31-11, 07:14 PM
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Thank you Sensei Master!

...take the caterpillar from my hand...
 
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Old 10-01-11, 10:05 PM
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I want to send a huge thanks to NJ Trooper for helping me with all of this! I got my new pump installed and it is working great!

Now my expansion tank is leaking!
I turned the system on a few weeks ago and noticed it wasnt heating up. I took the tank off and filled it with air to get back to 12psi. In the course of a few weeks it had no pressure left and the system was not heating up.

My question is this.. can I replace the Fill-Trol tank with an extrol tank?

The extrol is alot cheaper but Im not sure if this is fully compatible with my system

any help would be awesome!
 
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Old 10-02-11, 06:30 AM
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expansion tank

I believe the "fill trol" tank has a pressure reducing valve built in to the tank to automatically fill the system to 12 psi. A standard "ex trol" tank doesn't have the fill valve built in and is only an expansion tank. So- you'll either have to replace with another fill trol or use an ex trol tank and install a separate pressure reducing fill valve. Having the separate parts makes replacement cheaper in the future, but the fill trol is easier now- no extra piping work.

Steve
 
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Old 10-02-11, 08:20 AM
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Pretty good answer Steve! I'm just gonna add a little bit to it...

The Filltrol tank has a gadget inside, a rod that pushes on the fill valve and admits water to the system when the system pressure goes below the air charge in the tank.

If you replace the Filltrol with a standard Extrol you won't have any way to get water into the system because there's no rod to open the fill valve.

The Filltrol is kinda neat in it's design... you set the system pressure by adjusting the air charge in the tank. You want 12 PSI in the system, you put 12 PSI air in the tank and there ya go...

Problem is that it's more costly, and when ya need a tank you can't go to HD or Lowes and pick one up for $30.

This PDF has a diagram :

http://www.amtrol.com/media/document...filltrolIO.pdf
 
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Old 03-29-12, 06:21 PM
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Ordered a filltrol and everything has been working great! Just wanted to come back and say thanks again to everyone for the help!
 
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