Well McClain furnace looses prime, shuts down till blead, air in lines


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Old 02-14-11, 05:15 AM
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Well McClain furnace looses prime, shuts down till blead, air in lines

We have a Well McClain "Gold" series furnace, I can get the exact model if need be. It's approximately 5 years old. over the course of the last few months, the furnace would shut down on it's own, I replaced the filter in the canister, and I replaced the nozzle, a few weeks later it shut again. I had a service call and they went over everything, and replaced a fliter in the pump that I didn't know was there, it started up sounding great. A few days later it shut again, we had just received oil and the tank was just about on fumes because the oil truck couldn't get up our drive way with the snow, he tried a couple days later with no luck, and finally about 6 days and a lot of sand later he finally made it. With the tank running so low I decided to replace the canister filter again after it quit, I figured maybe something got in it. Another thing is I shut the furnace before he started filling the tank, and left it off for about 2 - 3 hours for any crap to settle before refiring it.

The bottom line is every time it quits, I can refire it by bleeding it, there's always air in the lines, same thing every time, I even thought to check the tank vent outside thinking it might be covered with snow, I cleared the snow around it, but it didn't seem like an issue.

Could I just need a new pump? We're leaving on vacation next week with our kids, and I don't really want to spend another $400 days before leaving for a service call and the pump if that's it, I can replace it my self. At the same time I don't want to come home to a cold house.

Any help would be appreciated!
 
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Old 02-14-11, 05:56 AM
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I wouldn't think the pump is bad... that's not gonna suck air I don't think...

Is this a ONE pipe or TWO pipe fuel system?

Is the tank above the level of the burner, or is there an 'overhead' oil line?
 
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Old 02-14-11, 06:16 AM
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I just went down and checked, it's a 1 line feed, the line comes out of the top of the tank, which is about 15' away, then it runs along the floor to the furnace. Hope that helps
 
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Old 02-14-11, 08:02 AM
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The burner shows Carlin EZ Pro, model EZ-1HPW
 
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Old 02-14-11, 09:08 AM
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Top feed tanks are sometimes 'troublesome' to get air out of the high loop that comes off the top of the tank.

Is the run from the tank to the burner relatively free of fittings? In other words, few places for air to get sucked into the system?

When you replaced the oil filter, I assume you used a new gasket and that it's tight?

Air in fuel systems can be very difficult to find the problem. Since the system runs under VACUUM rather than pressure, and air molecules are smaller than fuel molecules, you can have a leak that only goes one way... air IN, but nowhere do you see fuel OUT.

Start by very carefully examining all fittings for even the slightest trace of fuel oil. Since the oil is dyed RED, you can sometimes use a tissue to blot suspect areas ... if you see red... it's leaking.

The fuel system must be ABSOLUTELY leak tight, both in and out...

And you just might have to bleed more.
 
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Old 02-14-11, 02:10 PM
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Single pipe off top

Why anyone would do that is beyond me but I see it all the time. Here's a once & for all solution: Tigerloop Article
 
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Old 02-14-11, 08:16 PM
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Did I replace the gasket on the canister filter, no I didn't, but I'll be near there tomorrow and I'll pick one up.

There are no fittings in line other than the fitting at the tank, the filter in, out and into the pump. I'll try the tissue paper tomorrow and check for any visible.
 
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Old 02-15-11, 09:31 AM
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Is the filter you are using the General 1A series? If so, you might want to also replace the washer around the bolt head on top. The filter should have come with these parts...
 
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Old 02-15-11, 06:11 PM
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Speaking of gaskets: Don't forget the gasket under the small bleeder screw. While you're at it, but a dab of #2 Permatex on that screw & never touch it again.
 
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Old 02-15-11, 06:46 PM
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The filter isnt a A1, it's escaping me now, but the plumbing house has a big rack of replacement filters for it as soon as you walk in the door. I went there today for the gasket and ended up buying another new filter, I don't understand why the last filter I bought didn't have the packet of gaskets in it, but I'll replace all the gaskets tomorrow.

Grady, you mention using permatex on the bleeder? and not touching it again? You lost me on that, is this the bleeder I'm using every time I restart it?
 
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Old 02-15-11, 06:50 PM
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No, not the bleeder on the pump. I mean the 5/16" hex head screw on the filter. It's located between the center bolt & the outlet fitting. Why they still use that screw baffles me. It's just a source of air leaks.
 
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Old 02-15-11, 06:58 PM
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Yeah, I don't think it's even 1/8" tap is it? at least if it were, you could put something useful in there! (get yer mind outta that gutter! I didn't mean it that way!)
 
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Old 02-16-11, 03:34 PM
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OK BIG PROBLEM

I came down and simply replaced the gaskets on the filter, I shut the valve while I did it, when I went to restart it I blead it, not realizing I hadn't turned the valve on, after three tries it locked out, I figured out my stupid move and opened the valve, now I cant get the controler to come back on, I read the directions, held the button for 30 seconds, the light wont come on, I've been playing with it for 20 minutes, nothing. I have my kids in the house, i can't get it going, and it's starting to get cold.


What do I do???
 
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Old 02-16-11, 03:53 PM
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HELP! - Problem 6:50 Weds night

I came down and simply replaced the gaskets on the filter, I shut the valve while I did it, when I went to restart it I blead it, not realizing I hadn't turned the valve on, after three tries it locked out, I figured out my stupid move and opened the valve, now I cant get the Honeywell R7184U controller to come back on, I read the directions, shut the power, turned it back on, held the button for 30 seconds, the light wont come on, I've been playing with it for 20 minutes, nothing. I have my kids in the house, i can't get it going, and it's starting to get cold.

It was running fine when I shut it to replace the filter gaskets, now it's dead, what a simple f#@&$ thing, the controler is only a wek old.

What do I do now???
 
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Old 02-16-11, 04:00 PM
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First, calm down... and standby for a couple minutes... let me do a quick memory refresh
 
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Old 02-16-11, 04:02 PM
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Are you pressing and holding the reset until the LED flashes twice? and then releasing the button?
 
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Old 02-16-11, 04:19 PM
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I think you do this. Not sure.

To reset from restricted mode: Press and hold the reset
button for 30 seconds. When the LED flashes once for
one second, the device has reset.

http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell...ll/69_1459.pdf

Mike NJ
 
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Old 02-16-11, 04:24 PM
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That's weird! The book that I have says what I said above, and my control flashes twice. I wonder when they changed that?

I guess I need to update my library! mine is dated 2005... this one is dated 2008

Thanks for the 'heads up' Mike!

Wonder why Todd isn't answering?
 
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Old 02-16-11, 04:26 PM
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that's the problem, I'm doing that, I shut it off, wait a minute, actally I waited 5 minutes last time, turn the power on, no light, I hold the button for 30 seconds, nothing, I;ve done this now like ten times in the last hour, no light.

the furnace was running fine, all i did was shut it to replace the gasket on the filter, and when i went to restart it i blead it 2 or 3 times when i realized the valve was still closed, i opened it, blead it one time, after it shut i shut the power, turned it back on, and did the usual with the reset button, it;s been dead ever since
 
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Old 02-16-11, 04:29 PM
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OK, there he is...

You might have reset it the first time you did it ... are you sure that the power is on, and the thermostat is calling for heat?

Check that the T T jumper on the control is still in place.

Hit 'refresh' often on your browser!
 
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Old 02-16-11, 04:30 PM
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By the way, you will not get a light when the power is on if there is no flame sensed.
 
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Old 02-16-11, 04:32 PM
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I just cranked up the heat, heading back downstairs with my laptop
 
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Old 02-16-11, 04:37 PM
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Palms, check yer PM's...............
 
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Old 02-16-11, 04:37 PM
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Trooper,
They went from two blinks to one a coupla yeers ago. You may also need to hold the button for up to 45 seconds.

If the control is in hard lockout, the light should be flashing rapidly (1/2 second on, 1/2 second off)
 
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Old 02-16-11, 04:40 PM
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They didn't tell me! those rat b4574r65 ! Why didn't they call ?
 
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Old 02-16-11, 04:46 PM
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I GOT IT GOING!

Thanks everyone for the call to action.

I went upstairs and had dinner and let it sit for about 20 minutes, when I went back downstairs I turned on the power switch, Bang, the light came on and it fired, I didn't even touch the reset this time.

Why this happened?, I don't know, maybe it needed a longer rest in between resets? I saw 4 minutes in the manual, I timed it for 5. All I know is it's working now - THANKS!

I took the advice and changed all the filter gaskets tonight to try to fix the losing prime problem, I'm about done for the night, but tomorrow I'll come down and check all the fittings


Thanks again to everyone, really, it's a great forum. it's been one H&$^%ll of a week, at least we'll be warm, I'm gonna go pour a big glass of wine.

Thanks again
 
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Old 02-16-11, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by NJ Trooper View Post
They didn't tell me! those rat b4574r65 ! Why didn't they call ?
Yeah, the unclean canines aka dirty dogs. How dare they not notifiy you.
When I have to reset one I just give it a couple of seconds after the first blink just in case it's a two blinker.
 
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Old 02-16-11, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by upalms View Post
I GOT IT GOING!

Thanks everyone for the call to action.

I went upstairs and had dinner and let it sit for about 20 minutes, when I went back downstairs I turned on the power switch, Bang, the light came on and it fired, I didn't even touch the reset this time.

Why this happened?, I don't know, maybe it needed a longer rest in between resets? I saw 4 minutes in the manual, I timed it for 5. All I know is it's working now - THANKS!

I took the advice and changed all the filter gaskets tonight to try to fix the losing prime problem, I'm about done for the night, but tomorrow I'll come down and check all the fittings


Thanks again to everyone, really, it's a great forum. it's been one H&$^%ll of a week, at least we'll be warm, I'm gonna go pour a big glass of wine.

Thanks again
Trooper & I are more beer guys but have a second glass o' vino for us.
If the air leak problem persists, as it likely will, I strongly encourage the use of a Tiger Loop. Even if you have the problem whipped, it's good preventative medicine.
 
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Old 02-16-11, 05:05 PM
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Make mine a Sam Adams! But I've never been known to turn down the Crown ... Royal that is.

Here's the link for Patriot Supply ... a source for the TigerLoop.

Patriot Supply -

You'll need the 'flex lines' also, and you may need a few fittings to adapt to your system. I think they specify a 'fir-o-matic' valve at the inlet to the tigerloop.

Also re-read the link that Grady posted.

Here's a pic of one during installation process:



Also, there is a BYPASS PLUG that must be installed in your oil pump when you switch over to this setup from a single pipe feed. I think it's a 1/16 thread... WESTWOOD S211 ? Is that right Grady?
 

Last edited by NJT; 02-16-11 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 02-16-11, 05:06 PM
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By the way... there is a 'bleed mode' on that control that will give you something like 4 minutes to bleed the system... it's in the instruction book.
 
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Old 02-16-11, 05:29 PM
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Thanks for the help guys, and thanks to jeff for the phone call. i'm going to look into the Tiger loop, probably just throw it on any ways.

Second glass of wine, feeling better, have a Sam on me!
 
 

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