Hot Water Heating System Zone Wiring Question
#1
02-14-11, 11:44 AM
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Hot Water Heating System Zone Wiring Question
Is there a way to wire the relay of a zone hot water heating system so that the valve for the main floor can be left on, but the heat will come on if either the thermostat of the main floor or the basement calls for heat?
We had a zone water heating system, one zone for the main floor and one for the basement. A couple of years ago, after serviced by the Excel Energy Smart Home, it always heats the basement. Since we do not use the basement, it is wasting heat. I had them come again this year and the guy said that since the valve for the main floor is not working, they left both the main floor and basement valves open all the time and wired the relay to respond to the thermostat for the main floor only. Therefore, heat comes on in the basement every time the main floor is calling for heat. Since the smart home plan does not cover zone valves, they wired it that way. We had the main floor valve changed before and it was expensive. Is there a cheaper way to just rewire the relay so that we can leave the main floor valve open all the time and the main floor will have heat whenever either thermostat calls for heat, but the basement gets heat only when the basement thermostat calls for heat? Since the basement valve is good and it seldom requires heat, it will not be a problem. The Smart Home guy said it cannot be done. I cannot remember what he said. Maybe it will burn the valves. Do you have a better idea?
We had a zone water heating system, one zone for the main floor and one for the basement. A couple of years ago, after serviced by the Excel Energy Smart Home, it always heats the basement. Since we do not use the basement, it is wasting heat. I had them come again this year and the guy said that since the valve for the main floor is not working, they left both the main floor and basement valves open all the time and wired the relay to respond to the thermostat for the main floor only. Therefore, heat comes on in the basement every time the main floor is calling for heat. Since the smart home plan does not cover zone valves, they wired it that way. We had the main floor valve changed before and it was expensive. Is there a cheaper way to just rewire the relay so that we can leave the main floor valve open all the time and the main floor will have heat whenever either thermostat calls for heat, but the basement gets heat only when the basement thermostat calls for heat? Since the basement valve is good and it seldom requires heat, it will not be a problem. The Smart Home guy said it cannot be done. I cannot remember what he said. Maybe it will burn the valves. Do you have a better idea?
#2
02-14-11, 11:51 AM
You shouldn't wire a zone valve so it's always open, yes it will burn it out. They are not made for constant duty, they need time to cool between cycles.
Most valves have a lever on them that you can manually open them though...
What make/model zone valves do you have?
What are these 'relays' that you are talking about?
Most valves have a lever on them that you can manually open them though...
What make/model zone valves do you have?
What are these 'relays' that you are talking about?
#3
02-14-11, 11:56 AM
By the way, if it's only the 'power head' part of the valve that needs changing, that's something that a homeowner could do fairly easily. The heads are usually under a hundred bucks.
Also, might as well tell us what boiler make/model you have...
Also, might as well tell us what boiler make/model you have...
#4
02-14-11, 12:30 PM
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Hi NJ Trooper, thank you very much for your quick response.
Boiler - (old) Crane 5-W-102A-PA
Relay - Honeywell RA832A
Valve - Rev A 40004850-001
What is the 'power head'? Where to get, how to change? The guy said that the motor of the main floor valve is bad, because the lever on the valve is loose. We should change both of them at the same time. Right now both the valves are manually left open. The one for the basement was old but is still working. The main floor one was changed a number of years ago, but it is bad. Maybe it turns on and off more often. The basement does not call for heat much. I was thinking that the main floor valve can be left open all the time since it does not work anyway, but to wire in a way to let the basement one open whenever the basement needs heat.
Boiler - (old) Crane 5-W-102A-PA
Relay - Honeywell RA832A
Valve - Rev A 40004850-001
What is the 'power head'? Where to get, how to change? The guy said that the motor of the main floor valve is bad, because the lever on the valve is loose. We should change both of them at the same time. Right now both the valves are manually left open. The one for the basement was old but is still working. The main floor one was changed a number of years ago, but it is bad. Maybe it turns on and off more often. The basement does not call for heat much. I was thinking that the main floor valve can be left open all the time since it does not work anyway, but to wire in a way to let the basement one open whenever the basement needs heat.
#5
02-14-11, 01:32 PM
Valve - Rev A 40004850-001
Ya know what might help best? Pictures... free account / Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket / upload your pics there, come back here and drop a link to your PUBLIC album. Try to get the pics in focus, well lighted, and large enough for old eyes to see. Take a few of the entire system from a few angles in addition to any closer shots that you provide.
There probably is a way to hodge-podge the wiring to do what you want, but may be impossible to explain how to do that over the net. Also, without being there to see exactly how it is wired up, makes it that much more difficult.
Really, the best thing is to repair the zone valve... but you knew that already, didn't you?
#9
02-14-11, 03:14 PM
Ohhh, now I got it...
Yeah, that's possible, but we need to find out more about the system... there are other relays and such, and we don't yet know what control is on the boiler itself.
Yeah, that's possible, but we need to find out more about the system... there are other relays and such, and we don't yet know what control is on the boiler itself.
#10
02-14-11, 05:11 PM
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Sorry, it is Honeywell V8043 E 1020. There's also F9 9539 on it.
Boiler - (old) Crane 5-W-102A-PA
Relay - Honeywell RA832A
Valve - Honeywell V8043 E 1020, F9 9539, Rev A 40004850-001
I think right now only the thermostat on the main floor is controlling the heat. But the basement gets heat at the same time. It is a lot warmer than upstairs and we do not need it that warm there, just warm enough not to freeze the water pipes. When it is warm outside, I manually turn the valve off. If rewiring is not possible, I like to explore changing the 'power head'. It will be cheaper than purging the system and replacing both of the valves. Otherwise, we just have to put up with the current system or replacing both of the valves.
Boiler - (old) Crane 5-W-102A-PA
Relay - Honeywell RA832A
Valve - Honeywell V8043 E 1020, F9 9539, Rev A 40004850-001
I think right now only the thermostat on the main floor is controlling the heat. But the basement gets heat at the same time. It is a lot warmer than upstairs and we do not need it that warm there, just warm enough not to freeze the water pipes. When it is warm outside, I manually turn the valve off. If rewiring is not possible, I like to explore changing the 'power head'. It will be cheaper than purging the system and replacing both of the valves. Otherwise, we just have to put up with the current system or replacing both of the valves.
#11
02-14-11, 06:12 PM
OK, good... so that zone valve has 2 yellow and 2 red wires on it, right? (the ' E ' model has wires, there is an ' F ' model that has terminal screws)
Honeywell changed the design of the zone valves at some point. OLDER models could not have the head changed unless the system was drained.
OLDER heads can be identified by the presence of FOUR screws holding the head to the body. NEWER heads only have TWO screws diagonally opposite each other.
You need to slip the cover off the head to see these screws. They are on the baseplate of the power head.
Honeywell changed the design of the zone valves at some point. OLDER models could not have the head changed unless the system was drained.
OLDER heads can be identified by the presence of FOUR screws holding the head to the body. NEWER heads only have TWO screws diagonally opposite each other.
You need to slip the cover off the head to see these screws. They are on the baseplate of the power head.
#12
02-14-11, 06:15 PM
Here is a source for the powerhead you might need (IF you have the newer model with two screws):
40003916-026 - Honeywell 40003916-026 - Replacement Head for V8043E Zone Valves
40003916-026 - Honeywell 40003916-026 - Replacement Head for V8043E Zone Valves
#14
02-16-11, 10:32 AM
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Hi NJ Trooper, thank you so much! You know a lot about zone heating systems. It looks like we have the two screws E model with 2 red and 2 yellow wires. V8043 E 1020, probably means E model. I wonder what the "F9 9539, Rev A 40004850-001" mean. Thank you so much for the link too. However, can I just unscrew the 2 screws and take it to a parts dealer and make sure it is the same? There should be some parts dealer here. I am afraid to order online in case it does not fit. Changing the head seems to be the best and cheapest alternative. It will work for the long term too. Thank you so much for your help!
Our old valve is the 4 screw model. If that goes back in the future, can we change the head too?
I did mark the old wiring, hopefully, they are right. Also the new relay is different than the old. Are there serious risks in wring it wrong? It would be cheaper even if we have to hire someone to wire them back. Thanks again!
Our old valve is the 4 screw model. If that goes back in the future, can we change the head too?
I did mark the old wiring, hopefully, they are right. Also the new relay is different than the old. Are there serious risks in wring it wrong? It would be cheaper even if we have to hire someone to wire them back. Thanks again!
#15
02-16-11, 02:54 PM
However, can I just unscrew the 2 screws and take it to a parts dealer and make sure it is the same? There should be some parts dealer here. I am afraid to order online in case it does not fit.
Why wouldn't it fit? It's a Honeywell part?
40003916-026 - Honeywell 40003916-026 - Replacement Head for V8043E Zone Valves
But of course, you should do what you feel comfortable with.
Our old valve is the 4 screw model. If that goes bad in the future, can we change the head too?
40003918-006 - Honeywell 40003918-006 - 2 Way Powerhead Conversion Kit (Water)
Then, after this is installed, you won't need to drain to change the head again in the future.
wonder what the "F9 9539, Rev A 40004850-001" mean.
Also the new relay is different than the old. Are there serious risks in wring it wrong?
Of course there are risks... serious? depends on what you mean by serious... if serious is defined as making something worse than it already is, yes, of course that's possible.
Again, it depends on you being in your 'comfort zone' with doing your own repairs. If you don't feel comfortable, don't do it.
#16
02-16-11, 04:55 PM
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Thank you so much! You are a good trooper! I will take your advice and think it over. I fell comfortable with just replacing the head, but not with the wiring. Do I have to do both at the same time? Can I replace the head first and then call someone to do the wiring later? With your information, I can at least save money for not having to drain the water. The contractors usually do not tell you that. The Smart Home guy even told me to change both of the valves at the same time. He said he will have an estimate for me, but never calls me back.
You have a great day!
You have a great day!
#17
02-17-11, 02:32 PM
Do I have to do both at the same time?
Can I replace the head first and then call someone to do the wiring later?
Can you take some pictures? If they are clear enough I might be able to help you with putting the wiring back the way it was. If you can, set up a free account at Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket and upload the pics there. Come back here and drop a link to your PUBLIC album. We'll take a look and advise.
