Boiler id/specs

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Old 03-01-11, 06:24 AM
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Boiler id/specs

As I peak and tweak my boiler over the summer, it would be great to know exactly what the specs are. The only problem is no one seems to have any information on this system.



The best I can find out is it may be a private label made by Enerjet. But it appears that they may be out of business as well.
 
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Old 03-01-11, 06:39 AM
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The specs are all on that label. You probably have an IBR of 45,000 btu. Carlin EZ1 .60 70a nozzle????? Only what I saw online.


Enerjet Corporation - Complaint



Mike NJ
 

Last edited by lawrosa; 03-01-11 at 07:04 AM.
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Old 03-01-11, 07:06 AM
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Thats it? Wouldn't the boiler specs recommend burner settings as well? Such as nozzle size and spray pattern?

If I read the tag right it looks like it recommends a .75 nozzle and if I run anything bigger then a .60 the burner rumbles and tumbles.
 
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Old 03-01-11, 08:07 AM
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You posted on 1/17/10 about this issue. Did you take any advice from the pros? I guess there was no definative answer.

Here is the link.

http://forum.doityourself.com/boiler...il-burner.html

Mike NJ
 
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Old 03-01-11, 10:04 AM
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I did what was recommended. This is like a drug though. The better it gets I look for ways to make it more better.

Once the heating season is over and I delve further into things I will certainly have more dumb questions.

Thanks for your help
 
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Old 03-01-11, 04:37 PM
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Hi Bill, the .75 GPH is the max firing rate of the boiler, and would indicate that the GROSS INPUT is about 105K BTUH (0.75 X 140K BTU/GALLON). The other ratings are more or less in line with this. I think the IBR of 45K that was guessed is on the low side.

Remember that the actual GPH of a nozzle is dependent on the fuel pressure. The rating that is stamped on the nozzle is only valid at 100 PSI. If you run a 0.60 nozzle at about 140-150 PSI you will be firing around 0.75 GPH. So, one of the things that should be looked at is the pump pressure.

It's BETTER to run a smaller nozzle at higher pressure. Better 'atomization' of the fuel, better combustion. Most manufacturers are now doing just this on the newer boilers.

So, the nozzle size is 'implied' on the dataplate as a 'firing rate', but there is no info there about the pattern or angle.

Judging from the looks of the chamber in the other photos it is rather a 'shallow' one, so a 70 might be impinging on the rear wall. (did you get the target wall remounted somehow?). You might experiment with an 80 nozzle... but the chamber also looks kinda narrow. The idea is to match the shape of the flame to the combustion chamber such that the flame doesn't impinge, because this will cause soot.

Keep in mind that I'm a 'control freak' and that combustion isn't really my gig, I'm just parroting some ideas that might be worth exploring...

Maybe even a Kaowool blanket on the floor of the chamber might help... by reflecting some heat back into the flame to support better combustion.

Were you ever successful in getting a copy of the manual from 'redhead1' ? (I'm thinking not, else I would think you wouldn't be asking!)

Do you know if your burner has constant ignition ? or does the ignitor shut off after like 15 seconds or so?

Other than these comments, without the specs, it's gonna be hard to get a handle on this one.
 
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Old 03-02-11, 03:19 AM
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I did get they manual but it doesn't really say much. It is about 4 pages of just dimensions and nothing about firing.

I did get the target wall remounted by using water glass as recommended. I believe the ignitor shuts off for some reason but I am not 100% sure (is there a way to check?).

The nozzle is currently .60 70a and that was found by trial and error by the one good technician that spent the time to help with the rumbling and sooting.

One thing that needs to fixed over the summer is the short burn time I have. The boiler usually is only running for about a 4 minute on time. This was even during the dead of winter (single digits). The boiler did have the DHW in it but it didn't heat great and when oil was peaking a few years ago, I just went to electric DHW. I don't know how much eliminating the DHW would effect the burn time but I would think it may have a something to do with it. I am also thinking I should have more baseboard.

Rough numbers are 58 ft of baseboard 1st and 2nd floors. Overall size of house is 26X36 with an open floor plan and an open foyer that measures ~12x12. Upstairs heat great, downstairs could use some help. I am thinking that I need more baseboard downstairs due to the foyer, open floor plan, under house garage, and just the general fact that heat rises. (For some reason I just don't get the heatloss calculator )

Everything has run great this year. No sooting on the side of the house. Even sounding burn. Oil consumption is down. Heating is more even after cutting rugs that were blocking the fins.

Yet as a true technician I feel the "if some is good, more is better" syndrome creeping in. So know I have the need to fiddle until there is no fiddling left.

The more I read this forum the more I see how poorly the install and setup was when this house was built (1997). I heard after the fact the builder was running out of money and I am guessing he started skipping on stupid stuff.

This board is great and I thank you guys for being so tolerable!!
 
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Old 03-02-11, 03:07 PM
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I might be re-asking questions that have already been answered... sorry if so...

Rough numbers are 58 ft of baseboard 1st and 2nd floors.
Is that 58 feet times TWO? IOW, 58 up and 58 down, or is that 58 total for the whole home?

Have you ever measured the water temp going out versus the temp coming back from the system? (delta T) ... if the diff is more than 20F, then pumping a little more water might help the heat balance somewhat.

I believe the ignitor shuts off for some reason but I am not 100% sure (is there a way to check?).
What primary control is installed on the burner?

I don't know how much eliminating the DHW would effect the burn time but I would think it may have a something to do with it.
Did you convert the boiler to cold start when you abandoned the domestic coil?

I would think that converting to cold start would lengthen the burns... because the boiler would start cooler... burn longer to get up to temp...

Everything has run great this year. No sooting on the side of the house. Even sounding burn. Oil consumption is down.
And the rumbling startup is gone with that nozzle, etc? and the combustion numbers look good? then stick with what ya got!

I have the need to fiddle until there is no fiddling left.
Join the band. I'll bring the banjo.
 
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Old 03-02-11, 03:11 PM
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Is your oil supply one pipe or two? Is the tank outdoors? (i.e. cold oil)

Have you thought about installing a TigerLoop?
 
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Old 03-02-11, 04:48 PM
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Is that 58 feet times TWO? IOW, 58 up and 58 down, or is that 58 total for the whole home?
Yes sorry, 58 ft per floor

Have you ever measured the water temp going out versus the temp coming back from the system? (delta T) ... if the diff is more than 20F, then pumping a little more water might help the heat balance somewhat.
I was just reading about Delta T, and getting an IR thermometer is on my list of things to do this weekend. I would guess with the short burn time it would be less then 20, no? Where should it be? I thought more then 20 would mean to much baseboard and less would mean I could add some to draw more heat. Probably a bad way of asking.....

What primary control is installed on the burner?
I'll need to check

Did you convert the boiler to cold start when you abandoned the domestic coil?
No, I just turned the lo setting to 100.

I would think that converting to cold start would lengthen the burns... because the boiler would start cooler... burn longer to get up to temp...
The initial burn time is indeed much longer but after the first time the aquastat is satisfied I get the 4 minute cycle. Just seems that it would be better with a longer run time. Maybe a different aquastat with a bigger diff on the high side? Do they make them?

And the rumbling startup is gone with that nozzle, etc? and the combustion numbers look good? then stick with what ya got!
The need to fiddle makes me want to try a .55 or .50 nozzle

Join the band. I'll bring the banjo.
At least I am in good company

Is your oil supply one pipe or two? Is the tank outdoors? (i.e. cold oil)
One pipe supply with the tank in the basement

Have you thought about installing a TigerLoop?
What you talking about Willis? Don't know about no Tiger loop.....Something else to learn


Ultimately, if the system can support it (more base board), wouldn't a longer burn time make the burner run better and heat the house faster? This should be better for fuel consumption and I would imagine better for the stupid power venter that I have that gets cool in between each cycle (condensation?). yes/no?
 
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Old 03-02-11, 05:06 PM
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Basically if a boiler has short run times at / near design temps... it's oversized.
Adding more radiation will only,
a) shorten run times, because it will deliver more heat to the area,
b) lower the average boiler temp, which will require you to install a boiler bypass.

Go to a smaller nozzle if you can, or buy a smaller boiler.
This will give you longer run times, and smaller fuel bills
 
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Old 03-02-11, 05:30 PM
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I was just reading about Delta T, and getting an IR thermometer is on my list of things to do this weekend. I would guess with the short burn time it would be less then 20, no? Where should it be? I thought more then 20 would mean to much baseboard and less would mean I could add some to draw more heat. Probably a bad way of asking.....
One thing to know when using the IR thermos is that they are not always real accurate. It depends on the material you are measuring and it's emissivity. When you are out hunting a thermo down pick up a small can of flat black paint and a disposable foam brush. Paint spots on all the points you intend to measure. This will let you compare apples to apples with your readings.

The delta depends mostly on two things, the FLOW in the pipe, and the amount of emitters installed.

You ideally want a flow VELOCITY of ~2-4 FPS. With 3/4" pipe this works out to about 4 GPM. For every 1 GPM you can move around 10K BTUH through a system and maintain about a 20 DT.

Let's say that you have baseboard installed that emits 10K BTUH (let's say 20' at 500 BTU/FT). If you pumped 1 GPM of 180 water through that the exiting water would be about 20 cooler. (If you want to do the math, it's based on water at 8 lb/gall, and the fact that it takes 1 BTU to change the temp of 1 pound of water 1F)

So, if we want to pump 40K BTU through a system and come up with a 20F DT... if 3/4" pipe, that would be about 4 GPM and if you had 80' of that 500 BTU/Ft baseboard installed, the water would come back 20F cooler.

That's what the whole thing is based on... gotta run, more later.
 

Last edited by NJT; 03-02-11 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 03-02-11, 05:31 PM
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Following TO's reply,

OR, install a buffer tank and repipe the whole system...
 
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Old 03-02-11, 06:28 PM
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further...

If you pump water faster, you still get roughly the same BTU output from the baseboard, but since you are moving more water, then the water will come back hotter to the boiler.

Pump more slowly and the water has more time to shed it's heat and comes back cooler.

For a fixed flow rate, yes, adding more baseboard will extract more heat from that flow and the water will come back cooler, and vice versa.

In a perfect world, if you were designing for a 20F delta, and you achieved 4 gpm in 3/4 pipe, you would want to install 40K BTU of heat emitters on that run.

Given that you have appx 60K BTU of heat emitters, you want to shoot for about 6 GPM of flow through the boiler.

If the outdoor temp caused a heat loss of 60K BTU in your home, and you had 60K of emitters installed, and your boiler was 60K output, theoretically it would run constantly during that time.

Because your boiler surely has a higher output than the installed emitters, and because there is likely more heat emitter installed than your heat loss, the boiler will cycle shorter.
 
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Old 03-02-11, 06:32 PM
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Maybe a different aquastat with a bigger diff on the high side? Do they make them?
Check out the Honeywell L7224U. It has an adjustable DIFF on the HIGH setting. It can be configured as a single a'stat for cold start, or as a triple for warm start. (by pushing a few buttons)
 
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Old 03-02-11, 06:39 PM
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What you talking about Willis? Don't know about no Tiger loop...
Tiger Loop is a fuel oil deaerator. It effectively deals with problems of air in the fuel supply. If you are bottom feeding from the tank, and the tank is indoors, you might not need it.

The TL takes a one pipe feed from the tank, and runs two pipe between it and the burner.

It helps a lot with outdoor tanks and cold oil, because there is a reservoir in the device that holds some fuel and time for it to warm a bit before going to the burner. Also warming the oil a bit is the fact that the oil is circulating via the 2 pipe setup between the burner and the TL.

On fuel systems with any 'lift' involved, it helps to remove entrained air and gases from the oil before it hits the burner.
 
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Old 03-03-11, 02:47 AM
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I may have muddies the waters with the wrong wording. I started the post about a short burn time and then said I have the boiler short cycling. I know that poor wording can be a killer when talking tech and I want to clarify as I am getting more confused.

The burner cycle is what I am hoping to increase. The boiler runs/pumps in what I always though as normal. I will now measure that cycle once the temp is satisfied to get an idea on that cycle. I never thought about this variable.
 
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