Chimney Liners

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Old 05-28-11, 02:04 AM
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Chimney Liners

Hi, I'm converting from oil to gas. I have a 3 family house with a red brick two flue ceramic lined chimney inside the walls of the house (Basement floor to rooftop/Very Clean) apprx. 40' feet high. I am confused though because I keep getting different advice. I live in Boston Mass....and some tell me I absolutely must line the chimney (W/either Al or SS) if going to gas from oil. Some tell me I don't need to line it if the existing ceramic lining is in good condition and clean, I just need a licensed chimney inspector to inspect it and sign off on it.
My question is: Which is true considering Mass codes?
Any help out there?
Thanks....
 

Last edited by NJT; 05-28-11 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 05-28-11, 07:04 AM
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Get the stainless steel liner, I don't think aluminum is allowed or will survive. High efficiency gas appliances have lower flue gas temps than older versions. That means there is flue gas condensation. The condensation is acidic and will eat away your chimney. I don't know for sure, but I doubt Boston will allow you to vent into your chimney without a liner. What boiler are you installing?
 
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Old 05-28-11, 08:27 AM
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If you were somewhere other than Mass., I would say to follow the venting instructions included with the appliance BUT codes there are often much more strict than anywhere else in the country. You will likely have to line the chimney simply to downsize the area. The choice of material for the liner will be dictated by the equipment chosen & local codes. Up there the local fire chief is often the authority having jurisdiction.
 
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Old 05-28-11, 08:40 AM
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I moved your posts and deleted a couple ... there is no reason to ask the same question three different times in three different threads... and in threads that are not even on the same subject... my comments below may be repeats of others because I answered before I saw that you multi-posted.

What you need to do is consult with your local code enforcement officials. Only they will be able to tell you with any authority what is or isn't acceptable in your town.

I can tell you that in some cases it's the MANUFACTURER of the boiler equipment who will dictate that you must install a liner.

My advice would be to play it safe and install the liner.
 

Last edited by NJT; 05-28-11 at 08:55 AM.
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Old 05-31-11, 05:43 PM
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All codes must be followed. The local codes inspector may pass the install due to the local code. If the local may be more stringent than the federal than you are OK. Many people believe that it passes local code inspection that they are OK. The more stringent code must be followed. Just because it passes inspection does not mean anything in a court of law if another code is more stringent.
This means the installing contractor must be aware of all codes.
Venting category one appliances are controlled by NFGC and not the manufacturer unless it is a Burnham ES2 which is a different class of category one and must require a chimney liner in a clay lined chimney due to 85% efficiency.
 
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Old 06-01-11, 10:25 PM
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I don't know yet what the exact boiler is, but FYI: I have an old radiator system. So this I know for sure, there are currently no gas boilers for radiator systems that are ("H.E."). The highest efficiency gas boilers available for a radiator system like mine is about 80% if that?
Correct me if I'm wrong? but I hear that the condensation/acidic issue is more prevalent in the higher efficiency boilers (95%) that are mainly used with baseboard systems. Is this correct?
Also, most chimney guys I've spoken to (at least the ones I believe are honest) have told me that in Mass. All I need is an inspection/(Cleaning, If Ness.) and if the existing liner is clean and in good shape, then I just need a PASS report and I don't have to line it. I checked this out with "Boston Inspection Services" and they confirmed this...As long as the boiler is installed with the manufacturer's exact specs.
What do you know or believe is true?
Thanks for all your help thus far!!
 
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Old 06-01-11, 10:29 PM
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You got me thinking now rbeck? Thanks!! Are you a lawyer? LOL....Just kidding....Thanks!
 
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Old 06-02-11, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by blakk View Post
I don't know yet what the exact boiler is, but FYI: I have an old radiator system. So this I know for sure, there are currently no gas boilers for radiator systems that are ("H.E."). The highest efficiency gas boilers available for a radiator system like mine is about 80% if that?
Correct me if I'm wrong? but I hear that the condensation/acidic issue is more prevalent in the higher efficiency boilers (95%) that are mainly used with baseboard systems. Is this correct?
This is wrong. Mod/con's work with no problem on cast iron radiator systems. Of course, if you use a mod/con you won't be using your chimney to vent. The Burnham ES2 which is a conventional style boiler has an AFUE of 85%. I believe Burnham offers another conventional style boiler at about 87%.
 
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Old 06-02-11, 08:29 AM
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Blakk is talking steam. I think he may be putting these units in. See link below.

6" flue for both 140K and 175K.

If the tiles are good in the chimney I see no reason you cant vent there.

The question I am curious about is you have 3 boilers. Where are they all being vented??????????


http://www.usboiler.burnham.com/prod...literature.pdf

Mike NJ
 
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Old 06-02-11, 09:58 AM
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If you have hot water (not steam) radiators, then you should ABSOLUTELY be looking at high-efficiency modulating-condensing boilers. Especially in Boston where you have a lot of highly-qualified contractors who know how to do a mod-con right.

Cast iron radiators are 'high mass'. Mod-cons are fantastic with high-mass systems. Very efficient, very comfortable.

If mod-con, then you have a variety of venting options, including potentially using the chimney as a chase for typically narrower-diameter intake and exhaust piping.
 
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Old 06-04-11, 02:03 AM
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I have steam.....3 units....3 boilers.....2 units same BTU's.....1 unit less BTU's....2 flue clay lined chimney......2 boilers in 1 flue....1 boiler in the other....Clay liner is old...Should I line with flexible SS liner or rigid SS liner?....Either one is expensive....Doing the labor myself....Any solid advice from experienced professionals?......Thanks.....
 
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Old 06-04-11, 08:59 AM
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You have 2 chimneys 8x8. That falls into the 63 sq in column in the fuel gas code, I believe in the NFPA54.

This issue you have is the home is three storys at 40ft. What is the total length of the chimney?

You are putting a 175K btu on its own chimney, and a 175k and 145K btu on the other. 320K btu in one 63 sq in chimney. ( Its not going to cut it, from what I read. It apears you need a 9x9. It all depends on the total length of chimney)

The code says about local winter design temps. Where do you fall into this? ( I just read you are in between the 5F and -10F area. There is a chart. Ex: Your area may be between 5F-16F winter temps. If so, all the charts I looked at say you cant put both on this chimney. Too small.

Lining it would make it worse.


I have to read more, because there is alot of info in these books. Possibly the boiler guys know this off the top of thier heads.

Blakk. You can post here. You do not need to PM me. There are guys on here that will guide you probably better then I can. Its better to get other view points then just one.

Mike NJ
 

Last edited by lawrosa; 06-04-11 at 09:35 AM.
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