GVD-6 Vent Damper
#1
10-11-11, 07:06 AM
GVD-6 Vent Damper
Hi, Just had a crown boiler installed. The plumber connected the vent damper connector wrong and blew a trace/jumper on the board inside (I know even though its a keyed connector, he still managed to get it wrong). So my question is, there is a jumper on the small circuit board in the damper that burned, I'm assuming this is some kind of "rated" jumper since it burned like a fuse. Can I just jumper that back together with a piece of wire? I did jumper it quickly just to make sure that was the problem and the boiler fired right up, so I know that this is the only problem. I'm going to try and get it replaced from supply house but they may not take it since it was the plumbers fault.
thanks
thanks
#2
10-11-11, 07:20 AM
Super Moderator
Hi,
Well hold your horses a moment.
First off what is the Model or the boiler?
Second, as far as I know, boilers are set up for with or without a vent damper. By default once you hook the vent damper to the boiler a fusible link in line with the wire harness is supposed to blow. It then makes that the boiler to always need a vent damper, and will not operate without one.
So what you are seeing may be correct, but we need the model #.
Take pics also. We always like to see how the plumbers installs look, and pictures tell a thousand words.......
Mike NJ
Well hold your horses a moment.
First off what is the Model or the boiler?
Second, as far as I know, boilers are set up for with or without a vent damper. By default once you hook the vent damper to the boiler a fusible link in line with the wire harness is supposed to blow. It then makes that the boiler to always need a vent damper, and will not operate without one.
So what you are seeing may be correct, but we need the model #.
Take pics also. We always like to see how the plumbers installs look, and pictures tell a thousand words.......
Mike NJ
Last edited by lawrosa; 10-11-11 at 07:21 AM. Reason: I see GVD 6. Let me check the manual.)
#3
10-11-11, 07:43 AM
Super Moderator
Does the boiler fire if you put the jumper plug back on the end of the harness to the boiler with the damper disconnected?
Make sure the damper is opened manually if you do this test!!!!
The jumper plug jumps pins 2 and 3 which go to the roll out switch and the high limit. This completes the connection that the vent damper would make when open.
Mike NJ
Make sure the damper is opened manually if you do this test!!!!
The jumper plug jumps pins 2 and 3 which go to the roll out switch and the high limit. This completes the connection that the vent damper would make when open.
Mike NJ
#4
10-11-11, 07:59 AM
Mike, Thanks. Its a Crown Boiler AWI128.
The link that blew is on the actual circuit board inside of the damper. The harness back to the boiler is fine. I can see the burnt link so when I jumped it everything worked as it should. I just dont want to replace the burnt jumper with a regular piece of wire if the one that burnt was rated for a certain amperage so that it will burn in the case of short circuit. I attached a picture of the setup.
Inserting the picture didnt work. but heres the link to the picture.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink
The link that blew is on the actual circuit board inside of the damper. The harness back to the boiler is fine. I can see the burnt link so when I jumped it everything worked as it should. I just dont want to replace the burnt jumper with a regular piece of wire if the one that burnt was rated for a certain amperage so that it will burn in the case of short circuit. I attached a picture of the setup.
Inserting the picture didnt work. but heres the link to the picture.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink
#5
10-11-11, 08:04 AM
Super Moderator
link dont work.
Here is the manual for reference. I am going to brief through it.
http://www.crownboiler.com/documents...ion_manual.pdf
Mike NJ
Here is the manual for reference. I am going to brief through it.
http://www.crownboiler.com/documents...ion_manual.pdf
Mike NJ
#6
10-11-11, 08:04 AM
yes the boiler fires when I jump the burnt jumper. I dont have a picture of the damper or burnt jumper but if you take the plastic cover off the damper and remove the motor there is a small circuit board with 3 switches. on that circuit board is where the jumper burnt.
#7
10-11-11, 08:08 AM
#8
10-11-11, 08:33 AM
Super Moderator
If you are refering to the jumper on the vent damper board between W and Z, it states these wires could be replaced or the appropriate size/rating. ( Shown on page 17 figure 16 and 17. See notes )
http://www.crownboiler.com/documents...ion_manual.pdf
This jumper shows to be replaced with:
Line voltage 18 AWG Type TW or TEW/AWM wire
You can find the specifics on that wire on this chart.
http://www.generalcable.com/NR/rdonl...WM_CSA_TEW.pdf
Also here are the bullets from the trouble shooting. It talks about Z and W being a brass jumper. But the notes specify being replaced if need be with the above ratings.
• Check for 24 volts across TV and Z. If no voltage is present, the transformer in the L8148E is defective. It is
possible that this transformer has been destroyed by a short circuit in the boiler wiring. Before replacing the control,
carefully inspect all low voltage wiring on the boiler for places where it is touching the frame of the boiler or wiring
on the other side of the transformer.
• If 24 volts is present across TV and Z, check for 24 volts between T and W. If no voltage is present, make sure that
the brass jumper is present between W and Z and that the screws holding this jumper in place are both tight.
• If not already done, temporarily replace the thermostat across TV and T with a jumper. If the boiler fires when this is
done, there is a problem with the thermostat or zone wiring.
• If 24 volts is present across T and W and the relay in the L8148E does not pull in, the relay in the L8148E is
probably defective. Inspect the coil of this relay for visible heat damage. If such damage is found, there is a good
chance that a second transformer is present in the thermostat or zone valve circuit, resulting in the application of 48
volts across the relay coil. In older buildings, this transformer may be hidden in a location far from the boiler. If this
second transformer exists, it must be found and removed before the L8148E is replaced.
Hope this all helps.
Mike NJ
http://www.crownboiler.com/documents...ion_manual.pdf
This jumper shows to be replaced with:
Line voltage 18 AWG Type TW or TEW/AWM wire
You can find the specifics on that wire on this chart.
http://www.generalcable.com/NR/rdonl...WM_CSA_TEW.pdf
Also here are the bullets from the trouble shooting. It talks about Z and W being a brass jumper. But the notes specify being replaced if need be with the above ratings.
• Check for 24 volts across TV and Z. If no voltage is present, the transformer in the L8148E is defective. It is
possible that this transformer has been destroyed by a short circuit in the boiler wiring. Before replacing the control,
carefully inspect all low voltage wiring on the boiler for places where it is touching the frame of the boiler or wiring
on the other side of the transformer.
• If 24 volts is present across TV and Z, check for 24 volts between T and W. If no voltage is present, make sure that
the brass jumper is present between W and Z and that the screws holding this jumper in place are both tight.
• If not already done, temporarily replace the thermostat across TV and T with a jumper. If the boiler fires when this is
done, there is a problem with the thermostat or zone wiring.
• If 24 volts is present across T and W and the relay in the L8148E does not pull in, the relay in the L8148E is
probably defective. Inspect the coil of this relay for visible heat damage. If such damage is found, there is a good
chance that a second transformer is present in the thermostat or zone valve circuit, resulting in the application of 48
volts across the relay coil. In older buildings, this transformer may be hidden in a location far from the boiler. If this
second transformer exists, it must be found and removed before the L8148E is replaced.
Hope this all helps.
Mike NJ
#9
10-11-11, 08:53 AM
Super Moderator
I linked to your album but this is the only pic in there. Does not look like a damper board to me.
But it is an optical illusion. If you stare at the pic long enough a motorcycle will appear........ Thats amazing because I did not see the bike at first.
Mike NJ
But it is an optical illusion. If you stare at the pic long enough a motorcycle will appear........ Thats amazing because I did not see the bike at first.
Mike NJ
#10
10-11-11, 09:56 AM
hahaha, wow now that is some funny stuff. obviously the wrong pic but def a good one.
try this, now it should work. Had the album set wrong
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink
try this, now it should work. Had the album set wrong
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink
#11
10-11-11, 10:11 AM
Mike, this definitely answered my question. Thanks again for all the help. Hopefully the basement will never flood again causing me to go thru this again. lol.
#12
10-11-11, 10:29 AM
Super Moderator
No pic of the board?
The only thing I notice with the boiler is I believe its standard practice that I know to have the backflow preventer before the fill valve. It looks backward, and I am not sure from the one pic. Also I dont know if there are any ramifications involve.
Hopefully others will chime in with the above info.
Second is standard practice for expansion tank longevity is to intall in a vertical hanging position. Additionally I dont know why installers insist on installing a device that may potentionally leak, and hang it over the boiler. There is all the room in the world to pipe it off to the side in the vertical position.
What brand is that tank, I will look up the specs. Looks like Amtrol.
This is what it says.
http://www.amtrol.com/media/document...0EXTROL_IO.pdf
WARNING: Mount vertically only. Do not
mount on dead-end pipe.
3. Do not place the EXTROL on a dead-end pipe. Air can collect in the
EXTROL, causing internal corrosion and possible leakage.
2. Install the EXTROL on the supply side of the boiler, on the suctionside
of the heating circulator(s) (see Figure 1).
Also most important, where is the air seperator? I dont see any????
I would also have the installer replace the whole damper control since it was his fault, and possibly fix all this other stuff.
Take some more pics if you can from different angles.
Mike NJ
The only thing I notice with the boiler is I believe its standard practice that I know to have the backflow preventer before the fill valve. It looks backward, and I am not sure from the one pic. Also I dont know if there are any ramifications involve.
Hopefully others will chime in with the above info.
Second is standard practice for expansion tank longevity is to intall in a vertical hanging position. Additionally I dont know why installers insist on installing a device that may potentionally leak, and hang it over the boiler. There is all the room in the world to pipe it off to the side in the vertical position.
What brand is that tank, I will look up the specs. Looks like Amtrol.
This is what it says.
http://www.amtrol.com/media/document...0EXTROL_IO.pdf
WARNING: Mount vertically only. Do not
mount on dead-end pipe.
3. Do not place the EXTROL on a dead-end pipe. Air can collect in the
EXTROL, causing internal corrosion and possible leakage.
2. Install the EXTROL on the supply side of the boiler, on the suctionside
of the heating circulator(s) (see Figure 1).
Also most important, where is the air seperator? I dont see any????
I would also have the installer replace the whole damper control since it was his fault, and possibly fix all this other stuff.
Take some more pics if you can from different angles.
Mike NJ
#13
10-11-11, 10:43 AM
Super Moderator
Yes check this on your fill valve and backflow.
Here is what it says.
The backflow preventer must be
installed upstream of the regulator.
http://media.wattswater.com/1910265.pdf
Mike NJ
Here is what it says.
The backflow preventer must be
installed upstream of the regulator.
http://media.wattswater.com/1910265.pdf
Mike NJ
#14
10-11-11, 10:45 AM
Mike, Thanks. I am going to have him replace the damper. I'll take more pictures tonight of different angles. That is the only pic I had available right now. There's a lot more piping on the right side of the boiler which i'll get pics of. I will have him rotate the tank as well, I'm not sure of the brand off hand, but I'll check.
The backflow preventer right now is after the fill valve, if that needs to be swapped then i'll have him swap that too. as far as the air separator i'm not sure. hopefully you will see it when i post the other pictures.
Ralph
The backflow preventer right now is after the fill valve, if that needs to be swapped then i'll have him swap that too. as far as the air separator i'm not sure. hopefully you will see it when i post the other pictures.
Ralph
#15
10-11-11, 11:00 AM
Super Moderator
OK Ralph.
I will check back and I am sure others will chime in.
Hopefully your installer will not give you a hard time. You probably paid good money to have it installed and it should be to the manufacture specifications. He should absolutley own up to it.
Possibly we will see more in the other pics.
Aside from these things the install looks good. But looks are not everything.
You could of saved some electric by installing zone valves also instead of two circs.
Mike NJ
Talk to ys soon.
Mike NJ
I will check back and I am sure others will chime in.
Hopefully your installer will not give you a hard time. You probably paid good money to have it installed and it should be to the manufacture specifications. He should absolutley own up to it.
Possibly we will see more in the other pics.
Aside from these things the install looks good. But looks are not everything.
You could of saved some electric by installing zone valves also instead of two circs.
Mike NJ
Talk to ys soon.
Mike NJ
#16
10-11-11, 11:55 AM
Mike Thanks, yea since I wired it...everything except the damper plug. I would of rather have used zone valves. But since the original boiler had pumps the plumber just replaced what was there.
Ralph
Ralph
#17
10-11-11, 01:18 PM
if that gets inspected and i notice your in jersey, you need in this order, backflow, feeder, metal seated swing check and shutoff valve. also i dont see air elimination at all. extrol tank is poorly located. also i only notice one shut off for the gas. each appliance needs to have a designated shut off valve. looks like a decent install but the minor flaws show that he didn't do the best job he probably could have.
#18
10-11-11, 04:12 PM
I don't have anything to add really... but want to echo the moving of the expansion tank. When it comes time to brush out that heat exchanger, someone is gonna be cursing that they can't get the cover off the boiler without removing the tank!
Ralph, I sent you a PM...
Ralph, I sent you a PM...
#19
10-11-11, 07:19 PM
Ok here are some pictures, hopefully this link works.
https://picasaweb.google.com/1044893...eat=directlink
the backfill is a Watts 9DM3 Dual Check Valve with vent, is that suffient for air elimination?
https://picasaweb.google.com/1044893...eat=directlink
the backfill is a Watts 9DM3 Dual Check Valve with vent, is that suffient for air elimination?
#20
10-11-11, 07:40 PM
I already removed the damper to get it replaced tomorrow.
There are 2 shutoff valves for the gas line. its hard to see but one is off the tee going to the water heater and the other is inline going down to the boiler.
There are 2 shutoff valves for the gas line. its hard to see but one is off the tee going to the water heater and the other is inline going down to the boiler.
#21
10-11-11, 08:00 PM
the backfill is a Watts 9DM3 Dual Check Valve with vent, is that suffient for air elimination?
What you would need is something like a 'Spirovent' or equivalent...
image courtesy pexuniverse.com
there are also less expensive 'air scoops' that would do the job .
These are plumbed in-line of the system flow and take the air out as it passes through.
That tank REALLY needs to be fixed. Once it gets some water in it and some weight there will be problems... that's just ridiculous!
Last edited by NJT; 11-18-11 at 05:04 PM.
#22
10-11-11, 09:33 PM
Super Moderator
Well Ralph, Its more upsetting looking at it.
1. Why , oh why did they put it on bricks with holes. Gee they put the legs right in the holes for stabilty...LOL
That is pretty bad. When the bricks fall apart bad things can happen. Very bad.
2. That gas line is no better. No supprt. That gas valve will rip right off. Joint should of been swung to the wall and a floor anchor with some threaded rod.
Pretty bad also.
3. The expansion tank should be on the feed with a air purger as trooper stated below. Install the tank vertical on the air scoop and pipe the boiler feed there also. Fix the backflow/fill valve position. This should all be on the boiler feed. Google, " Pumping away from the expansion tank".
And RDsteam is correct, most towns in NJ require an additional check on the make up water line. Even though the watts 9D is a dual check.
( My old boss used to fight it out with the inspectors on this one. But in the end it ends up getting installed.)
4. No auto air purger???? Unbelievable... Nothing up on the pipes in the ceiling above the boiler? Small can looking thing?
I cant say its the worst install I have seen, but its up there.
Get her fixed up.
Mike NJ
1. Why , oh why did they put it on bricks with holes. Gee they put the legs right in the holes for stabilty...LOL
That is pretty bad. When the bricks fall apart bad things can happen. Very bad.
2. That gas line is no better. No supprt. That gas valve will rip right off. Joint should of been swung to the wall and a floor anchor with some threaded rod.
Pretty bad also.
3. The expansion tank should be on the feed with a air purger as trooper stated below. Install the tank vertical on the air scoop and pipe the boiler feed there also. Fix the backflow/fill valve position. This should all be on the boiler feed. Google, " Pumping away from the expansion tank".
And RDsteam is correct, most towns in NJ require an additional check on the make up water line. Even though the watts 9D is a dual check.
( My old boss used to fight it out with the inspectors on this one. But in the end it ends up getting installed.)
4. No auto air purger???? Unbelievable... Nothing up on the pipes in the ceiling above the boiler? Small can looking thing?
I cant say its the worst install I have seen, but its up there.
Get her fixed up.
Mike NJ
#23
10-12-11, 12:34 PM
I'm going to call my plumber to fix all these issues. I'll have the expansion tank relocated and mounted vertical and have the air separator installed (Does the air separator always connect right to the tank?). Also have the backfill and pressure valve swapped to the correct position.
Ill find some solid bricks without holes too.
Ill find some solid bricks without holes too.
