boiler fill valve


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Old 12-05-11, 10:07 AM
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cold loop

a few years ago we remodeled and installed baseboard heat on the second and third floor, third floor is fine, on its own zone,however the second floor went onto its own zone as well with 3 seperate loops, no problems first year. but this year one of the loops seems to be cold. could i possibly have some sort of airlock?, if so what would be my remidy..if im not using the correct terminology, by loops i mean my feedline tee's, then one of them tees again .all entering back into my return line. i have noticed though my pressure is running a bit low ,near 10 lbs. it seems to me when i installed the unit i ran it 15-18 lbs. any help would be appreciated and the kids will be warm in the cold vermont winter
 
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Old 12-05-11, 02:57 PM
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If the third floor is working fine, a problem on the second floor is likely not do to pressure.

It could be air bound. Are there valves to separate the "loops"? Or is there some way to bleed each loop (like a drain el in the baseboard).

If you have neither of those, you could isolate the second floor and bleed the entire floor.

If you don't know how I am sure NJT will be here in a sec (he gives better instructions than I could ever hope to).
 
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Old 12-05-11, 03:42 PM
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Give it a shot Tim! Yer doin' just fine!

Yeah, the pressure looks a little low and that should be investigated, and it certainly could contribute to a loop becoming airbound...

Top of that, it's easier to get the air out of a system with the pressure jacked a bit... so first things first, get the pressure to where it needs to be.

If you've got a bladaphragm (new word, just invented, bladder + diaphragm) expansion tank (the kind that looks like a propane grill tank), that should also be checked for a proper air charge. To do this, you MUST lower the pressure to zero on the boiler water side. You will not get an accurate reading if you don't.

More instruction later if yer up to the challenge...
 
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Old 12-06-11, 04:35 AM
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thanks for the advise,

when refilling the zone is it nesscary to run the circulator?
 
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Old 12-06-11, 04:42 AM
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boiler fill valve

cant seem to get the fill valve to regulate or even fast fill to let any water into the system, its only 3 yrs old. cant say what brand off the top of my head rite now but it came with my trim kit for my alpine boiler , a crown
 
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Old 12-06-11, 05:39 AM
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I would venture to say if the valves are open the screen/filter is blocked. Should not be after 3 years but maybe feeding small amounts of water often to make that happen.
 
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Old 12-06-11, 02:21 PM
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I've merged your other thread together with this one, there is no need to start a new thread for a continuing discussion of the same system.

when refilling the zone is it nesscary to run the circulator?
Refilling? no need to run the circulator...

Purging air? not usually...
 

Last edited by NJT; 12-08-11 at 04:18 PM.
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Old 12-08-11, 03:53 PM
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coold loop

good evening trooper. in reguards to my problem with the 'cold loop', im afraid i have just made things worse, to begin you suggested i start by locating the loss of pressure problem, i did, a few small leaks at the threads connecting the manifold for yhe expansion tank. as to the problem with the boiler fill valve problem, it was a frozen stem, took it apart and freed it up so the valve works fine now.i fixed the threads on the manifold ,no leaks but i over tightened the expansion tank and cracked the manifold housing itself.i suppose thats not the real problem though,i drained the second floor zone alltogether, the one with 3 seperate 'loops', one of wich was cold, now there all cold,i cant get any circulation at all. and before you ask i did refill it.the circulator pump is working fine for the other 2 zones. i think i have a super sized airlock. if you agree this is so, where would you suggest i put air bleeders, how many do you suggest, and what type would i use. its getting cold in vermont. thank you
 
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Old 12-08-11, 04:22 PM
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Hi Baler, please do not start a new thread every time! makes more work for me having to merge the threads... find your original thread and add a new reply...

Is it possible for you to take some pictures of your system? in focus, well lighted and large enough to see the details?

If so, please set up a FREE account at Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket and upload the pictures there, come back here and place a link to your PUBLIC album for us to view.

i drained the second floor zone alltogether,
Ooops... wrong thing to do. Instead of getting the air out, you let more in!

I'll try to walk you through this, but I really need to see your setup...
 
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Old 12-08-11, 04:56 PM
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sorry about the new thread, im new to the site, just getting used to it. so what is it i should take photos of, the lines are all in the second floor walls and ceiling, so if theres any specific thing at the boiler ill take that
 
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Old 12-08-11, 05:49 PM
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I'd like to see a wide angle shot of the boiler for starters... try to get several from different angles so I can see what's connected to what.

Then, step in closer and take shots of the various valves and things.

What I'm going to be looking for is what we call a 'purge station'. This is a pair of valves next to each other that will allow one to push water through the zones at a faster rate than normal so that the air comes out a drain hose.

Basically, I need to 'be there' ... remotely ... so keep that in mind as you take the pics... remember that no two systems are alike, so in order to show you what to do, I have to be able to see everything...
 
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Old 12-08-11, 05:55 PM
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Oh yeah, show me that cracked manifold too. Is it leaking?
 
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Old 12-09-11, 07:38 AM
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piping details

the pictures are on their way, here are some details of how i piped the second floor zone, i brought it up from the basement exposed in an old stairwell ,up through the second floor walls into the second floor ceiling,there it tees/starting one "loop", it then travels abour 8 feet in the ceiling then drops down in the wall,were it tees again starting 2 more "loops"going in opp. directions, one of these latter loops runs in the hallway and travels up over a doorway in the wall were it then picksup in baseboard until it finally goes back in the wall and up into the ceiling again to start the return line,were the 2 other loops tee into it in the ceiling before dropping back down the wall and into the basement.if i rember correctly i did have trouble getting this zone filled in the beginning, i just dont remember what i did, at that point i had my heat running before my walls were fully boarded or plastered,reason being it was february in vermont and needed heat to plaster/im wondering if all my ups and downs with the piping has contributed to the problem seeing that its the only zone piped that way, all the piping is pex .as you mentioned in your last reply about a purge station , i do have one purge valve,located in the return line between the 2 boilers, oh i forgot to mention my system is a gas boiler with a wood fired backup wich we run 90% of the timebut back to the purge valve its only 3 feet down line from the fill valve/this was already in place before i installed the new gas unit, it would seem to me now this may not be located correctly.
 
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Old 12-09-11, 03:16 PM
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wondering if all my ups and downs with the piping has contributed to the problem
Yes... very likely.

Let's see the pics and then go from there.
 
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Old 12-09-11, 07:05 PM
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Here is the link for the album of the pictures which include pictures of the boiler and the pipings.

Pictures by the_baler - Photobucket
 
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Old 12-11-11, 11:00 AM
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good afternoon trooper, have you had a chance to view the pictures yet?
 
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Old 12-11-11, 02:58 PM
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Yes, I looked at them and was not able to determine anything from them, sorry.
 
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Old 12-11-11, 04:48 PM
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Unfortunately I am in the same boat as NJT.

I looked at them, but there isn't a wide enough photo to put the pieces together.

I noted that you have two air scoops and two expansion tanks. Is there a reason?

Not sure about all the swing checks.

If you can back up and take a photo that catches the entire boiler piping situation it would help. Hopefully you can use a digital camera so we can zoom in once they're uploaded.
 
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Old 12-12-11, 08:33 AM
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if the pictures wont do, have i given enough info to start on the purging solution?
 
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Old 12-12-11, 11:53 AM
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a week with no heat on second floor

could someone please help me with some advise. its been a week now and the no heat issue is getting old by the hour. as my prior posts read . i really need to deal with my problem now, i had gone on another help site and a solution suggested i use the boiler drain and fill at the same time with the zone isolated, i did so and played with the valves in an array of orders,but no luck with getting any water into the zone, i'd ping on the pipes and just as empty as could be.i have a question now thet my zone valve may be stuck shut. i usually just run the valves open on the manual setting because they have not been wired in yet, just have the thermostat wired into the boiler circulators, yes plural because we use a wood backup and havent quite figured out how we need to wire two boilers with 3 zones.weird i know ,but back to my zone valve, how would i test to determine if its froze shut, it feels just like the other two when i throw the arm, the valves are taco. another concerning question i have is were did the water go i let in prior to draining it down those dozen times?. i could understand if your thinking just give in dude call a pro but i tried ,my neighbor has been away and we live quite rural probably 40+ miles for a service call. but i am really wanting to know the nuts and bolts of this problem for myself, i allways fix what i brake
 
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Old 12-12-11, 12:17 PM
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We'd really like to help you, but can only do so in the same general terms that the 'other' site did.

You need to find a way to push water through those pipes, obviously. To do that, you will have to manipulate whatever valves you have available...

Remember, water will take the path of least resistance. Always will flow from higher pressure to lower. You need to examine all your piping and determine which valves to open or close in order to pump water under pressure through the zone and not let it take another easier route through the system.
 
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Old 12-12-11, 12:21 PM
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another concerning question i have is were did the water go i let in prior to draining it down those dozen times?
You drained it a dozen times? why?

Dunno where it went... a big leak maybe somewhere that you can't see?
 
 

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