Honeywell oil primary control R7284B
#1
12-28-11, 08:59 AM
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Honeywell oil primary control R7284B
I have a similar problem with my oil hot water furnace. Several times over the last few weeks I have had to push the reset button. It starts on the first push every time. It may go a few days without a problem. The furnace had an annual inspection and cleaning on october 28th. I am not too crazy about calling the oilman and getting charged $100 to enter my house. Also, I can tap the relay switch on the aquastat and the burner will fire. Does this seem like an aquastat problem to you? Could it be the switching relay? If either, I would like to do the work myself. Opinions?
#2
12-28-11, 09:29 AM
Also, I can tap the relay switch on the aquastat and the burner will fire.
You can try cleaning the contacts with some good contact cleaner, but do NOT USE ANYTHING ABRASIVE! no sandpaper...
OR, there could more likely be a cracked solder connection where the relay is soldered to the PC board... it can be repaired if this is what it is... and you know how to solder and can get the thing apart without breaking it...
#3
12-28-11, 04:29 PM
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To NJ TROOPER:
Thanks. It looks as though the board can be removed with everything intact by just straightening out the bends at all four corners of the metal frame and pulling the board straight out. Is this a corrrect assumption? If it is not the connections, would it be the switching relay itself? If so, do I replace the relay or the complete aquastat (11 year old Honeywell)? If the aquastat, does the boilerneed to be drained first?
Thanks.
Thanks. It looks as though the board can be removed with everything intact by just straightening out the bends at all four corners of the metal frame and pulling the board straight out. Is this a corrrect assumption? If it is not the connections, would it be the switching relay itself? If so, do I replace the relay or the complete aquastat (11 year old Honeywell)? If the aquastat, does the boilerneed to be drained first?
Thanks.
#4
12-28-11, 04:51 PM
straightening out the bends at all four corners of the metal frame and pulling the board straight out. Is this a corrrect assumption?
If I were doing the job, I would remove the entire aquastat and bring to the bench. There is a single screw that clamps the aquastat onto the immersion well. You don't need to remove that screw, just loosen it enough to release the clamp. Slide straight off.
If the bulb doesn't come out of the well easily, STOP! They sometimes get 'stuck'... often because the 'heat transfer compound' that is sometimes used has dried up and hardened. If it does get stuck, the chances are good that you won't be able to get it out easily and may end up damaging it... just so you are fairly warned........
You probably will have to also remove the sheathed cable connectors also... I don't think you can get the board past them. Leave the cables in the connectors and remove the connector nuts and pull the whole thing straight out. BE GENTLE of that bulb and capillary tube!
No, you don't need to drain the boiler. The temperature sensing bulb is inserted into an 'immersion well' which is a closed copper tube threaded into the boiler.
#5
12-28-11, 04:55 PM
Something else I want to mention before you start...
There should be NO REASON that a bad solder connection on the board will cause the primary control to trip out and need resetting.
You may actually have TWO PROBLEMS.
So please, before you start, do some more diagnosis, just to be sure you aren't wasting your time and potentially damaging a good control.
If you DO have two problems, be aware that fixing the aquastat will not fix the reset problem.
That reset button pops when there is a call for the burner to fire and there is no flame sensed.
This means that the burner IS RECEIVING the call for heat from the aquastat and that there is a problem with the BURNER also.
If the ONLY problem was a cracked solder connection the reset button would not trip, the burner would just either not power up, or if it did power up, it would just shut down again without tripping the reset button.
There should be NO REASON that a bad solder connection on the board will cause the primary control to trip out and need resetting.
You may actually have TWO PROBLEMS.
So please, before you start, do some more diagnosis, just to be sure you aren't wasting your time and potentially damaging a good control.
If you DO have two problems, be aware that fixing the aquastat will not fix the reset problem.
That reset button pops when there is a call for the burner to fire and there is no flame sensed.
This means that the burner IS RECEIVING the call for heat from the aquastat and that there is a problem with the BURNER also.
If the ONLY problem was a cracked solder connection the reset button would not trip, the burner would just either not power up, or if it did power up, it would just shut down again without tripping the reset button.
#6
12-28-11, 05:02 PM
If it is not the connections, would it be the switching relay itself? If so, do I replace the relay or the complete aquastat (11 year old Honeywell)?
That said, BEFORE you take the aquastat off, get a strong flashlight and examine the contacts. You should be able to see them... if they are PITTED badly, replace the aquastat.
Let me ask one more question though... does the relay 'click' when there is a heat call? In other words, does the relay pull in, and the burner fail to fire? or is there no 'click' at all?
How does the circulator pump(s) behave when this happens?
Is your system 'zoned' ? i.e. more than one thermostat?
#7
12-28-11, 05:44 PM
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Not being in the cellar when the issue happens I don't know if the relay clicks or not when the there is a call for heat. I only know there is a problem when my wife complains that there is either no hot water or the thermostat is set higher than what the present temp is and the furnace isn't firing. I have 4 zones:
cellar, hot water, first floor and second floor.
What are the 2 possible problems? are you saying that the 2 possible problems may be the switching relay and the burner? I am confused since you say a bad connection would not cause primary control to trip out. The reset button only pops when there is call to fire but no flame sensed and for no other reason?
cellar, hot water, first floor and second floor.
What are the 2 possible problems? are you saying that the 2 possible problems may be the switching relay and the burner? I am confused since you say a bad connection would not cause primary control to trip out. The reset button only pops when there is call to fire but no flame sensed and for no other reason?
#8
12-28-11, 06:32 PM
The reset button only pops when there is call to fire but no flame sensed and for no other reason?
It will happen if there is a call for heat and it either doesn't fire, or it fires and then the flame goes out.
The other problem of having to tap the relay is most likely not related to the reset button popping.
In the sequence of events during a heat call, a zone calls for heat. The zone valve opens and calls for heat to the aquastat. The relay should pull in and fire the burner and the circulator.
If there is a problem with the aquastat, and it does not call the burner to fire, then the reset button can't pop up, because there is no call for heat to the burner.
That's why I suggested that there may be two problems.
When you have to tap the relay to get it to fire, has the reset button always been pushed first?
In other words, do the two events ALWAYS occur together? Or can it be one OR the other?
Sometimes the reset? and no tap needed?
Sometimes tap? and no reset needed?
It is POSSIBLY related though... but that's what I mean about diagnosing properly.
Last edited by NJT; 12-28-11 at 06:58 PM.
#9
12-28-11, 06:41 PM
storms and outages caused some havoc hereabouts w/alot of controls.might have caught up with yours.i think NJT is telling you yes you might have two diff. problems.burner and control and or controls.
#10
12-28-11, 08:32 PM
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I was just finishing watching the UConn game and thought that I heard a click at the furnace. I checked and the boiler temp was between 100 and 130 and falling. I checked the thermostats on the first and second floors and both read the temperature that they were set for. I moved the desired temp up 2 degrees on the first floor and within 2 minutes I heard a definite click of the relay, the circulator started but no firing of the burner. Looks like I have to hit the reset to get through the night.
Regarding taping the relay and hitting the reset button, only one needs to be done. I prefer the reset button. If I hit reset, no tap of relay needed and vice-versa. The reset button seems to always be in the up position.
Regarding taping the relay and hitting the reset button, only one needs to be done. I prefer the reset button. If I hit reset, no tap of relay needed and vice-versa. The reset button seems to always be in the up position.
#12
12-29-11, 07:15 AM
Yes...
I don't understand...
Are you saying that with the reset button popped up, and you tap on the relay, the burner will start, but you will not have to then push the reset button?
As Guy has stated, if that reset button is popped up, there should be no amount of tapping that should start that burner without pushing the button and resetting the control. Once that button is UP, the burner is LOCKED OUT.
I don't understand...
Are you saying that with the reset button popped up, and you tap on the relay, the burner will start, but you will not have to then push the reset button?
As Guy has stated, if that reset button is popped up, there should be no amount of tapping that should start that burner without pushing the button and resetting the control. Once that button is UP, the burner is LOCKED OUT.
#13
12-29-11, 12:00 PM
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I have only tapped the relay on two occasions. During those times I don't know if the button is up ordown. Whenever i tapped the relay, the burner would kick on.
I just checked the thermostats on the 1st and 2nd floors and they reflect the present temperature. The boiler temp is at 110 degrees with the circulator is running. Is it normal for the circulator to be hot to the touch?
I just checked the thermostats on the 1st and 2nd floors and they reflect the present temperature. The boiler temp is at 110 degrees with the circulator is running. Is it normal for the circulator to be hot to the touch?
#14
12-29-11, 12:55 PM
keep in mind he aquastat takes the hits on the 2 relays within from the oil burner assembly and the circulator(not as bad though)and it is the stat closure that they arch.tapping the relay is telling you something especially with an oil burner amp draw on start..diffrent then a gas boiler BestBuyHeatingAndAirConditioning.com: Honeywell Boiler Controls
#15
12-29-11, 01:20 PM
Is it normal for the circulator to be hot to the touch?
sminker, what? could you repeat that please? I have no idea what you just said.
#16
12-29-11, 02:41 PM
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To NJTROOPER
Thanks for all your time and advice. I ended up calling the oil man, ugh!! It was the oil burner controller, not the aquastat. $270 bucks later.............
Thanks for all your time and advice. I ended up calling the oil man, ugh!! It was the oil burner controller, not the aquastat. $270 bucks later.............
#18
12-31-11, 01:01 PM
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Honeywell oil primary control R7284B
Brand new controller goes into hard lockout. This is the same problem that I had with the replaced older version where I needed to reset it. The transformer was replaced the day after the controller.
What may be the problem now? Is there a max number of resets that I can do here? At what point does it go to restricted lockout?
What may be the problem now? Is there a max number of resets that I can do here? At what point does it go to restricted lockout?
#19
12-31-11, 01:51 PM
i always check the basics first,ohms,nozzle,o.f.,p.s.,gravity flow,electrol adj.,air and pump pressure.not to much to go in the parts department.hope you get credit.i have been called slow at times on call.
#20
12-31-11, 05:29 PM
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Do you think it is the controller or what? I hte to call the oil company and have them tell me it is the burner or the aquastat.............But I was told that the aquastat only controls the boiler temperature............
#21
12-31-11, 06:09 PM
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Do you actually get flame? If not, that's where you need to start.
That control has a feature where you can read the resistance of the cad cell. What is that reading?
That control has a feature where you can read the resistance of the cad cell. What is that reading?
#22
12-31-11, 06:33 PM
Whaler, I'm going to merge this new thread onto your original one so that everyone knows the history of the problem...
When you told me the tech that came said it was the primary, I was skeptical... to say the least.
When you told me the tech that came said it was the primary, I was skeptical... to say the least.
#23
12-31-11, 06:54 PM
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This is one of those hunches I get every now & again about a burner problem. I'm suspecting burner motor.
Whaler,
Is the burner motor closer to 5 - 6" in diameter & the same size all the way around or more like 3 -4" with a lump on the side?
Whaler,
Is the burner motor closer to 5 - 6" in diameter & the same size all the way around or more like 3 -4" with a lump on the side?
#24
12-31-11, 09:32 PM
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Grady,
It is 6 inches in diameter and of equal size all around. No lump. It is a Becket model AFG. i don't know if it gets a flameprior to causing lockout. I don't think so, I heard the transformer hum a few seconds then go to hard lockout when I happened to be near by last night.
It is 6 inches in diameter and of equal size all around. No lump. It is a Becket model AFG. i don't know if it gets a flameprior to causing lockout. I don't think so, I heard the transformer hum a few seconds then go to hard lockout when I happened to be near by last night.
#25
01-01-12, 08:11 AM
I guess then that there was a call for heat at the time of the lockout.
Did anything else happen at that time? Such as the motor started up and ran? It sounds like not, otherwise I doubt that you would have heard anything humming. The motor noise would have drowned that right out.
If the burner is not in lockout when there is a heat call, the FIRST thing that you would notice is the motor turning on.
Grady may be right about that! He's a pretty sharp young fella...
BUT... I still have my doubts about the aquastat. How or why could tapping the relay cause the unit to start ?
You do realize that by 'start' we mean run and continue to run... I say this because if the top part of that relay is pushed down so that the contacts 'make', the burner will run, but as soon as you release it, it will shut off again.
Did anything else happen at that time? Such as the motor started up and ran? It sounds like not, otherwise I doubt that you would have heard anything humming. The motor noise would have drowned that right out.
If the burner is not in lockout when there is a heat call, the FIRST thing that you would notice is the motor turning on.
Grady may be right about that! He's a pretty sharp young fella...
BUT... I still have my doubts about the aquastat. How or why could tapping the relay cause the unit to start ?
You do realize that by 'start' we mean run and continue to run... I say this because if the top part of that relay is pushed down so that the contacts 'make', the burner will run, but as soon as you release it, it will shut off again.
#26
01-01-12, 04:39 PM
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Careful who you're callin young. I 'member when dirt was created.
When Whaler said "relay" I was thinking primary?
Since the primary is generally burner mounted, I've seen more than once, tapping it was enough to kick the motor off of a stuck start switch.
When Whaler said "relay" I was thinking primary?
Since the primary is generally burner mounted, I've seen more than once, tapping it was enough to kick the motor off of a stuck start switch.
It was I who was confused. In re-reading the whole thread I find it was the aquastat relay he tapped. I'll keep my mouth shut & go to bed now.
#29
01-01-12, 09:18 PM
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Ya, it was the relay on the aquastat. I have no idea why he replaced the controller. I told him that I thought the problem was the aquastat. NJ Trooper, I didn't attempt to remove the board or the aquastat itself because I was concerned about the the bulb, etc. So I left it up to the oil man. He said the controller was only putting out 3.3 amps and the minimum should b 3.5. He said the aquastat only controls the water temp. Then why are there wires going to the burner, the thermostat and the circulator? I can't believe that I didn't ask him these questions. Now, if the next guy comes and says that its the aquastat I'll ring the necks of the first two guys. I mean, I know very little about this stuff, but I figured in my little head at the very beginning that it must be a relay that, at times, remains open instead of closing or vice versa. If he says its the aquastat I think I'll take my chances and attempt to replace it myself. But that bulb, etc, scares me since NY Trooper said that this could be tricky with the bulb getting stuck in the well etc.
#30
01-01-12, 09:36 PM
Have you had a chance to read through the I/O manual of the R7284B? As Grady noted, it has some diagnostic capabilities that might help solve your problem.
#31
02-20-12, 10:15 PM
If the bulb doesn't come out of the well easily, STOP! They sometimes get 'stuck'...
#32
02-21-12, 09:00 AM
Dwainw, If you have no voltage at either C1 or B1 I don't think your problem is going to be a bad solder connection.
Was the 'RESET' button popped up? Did you push it? Nothing happened?
If there's a problem with the safety circuit in this aquastat, it could cause your problem.
I would probably spray something down into the immersion well. The heat compound that they use is silicone based, so I might first try getting some silicone lube down there. Then let it sit and see if it penetrates the stuff and loosens it up. After a few hours, try wiggling it around... if that don't work, I might try some 'PB Blaster' in the same way.
If you can't get it out, you will be faced with replacing the aquastat, and draining the boiler to replace the immersion well.
If I were you though, I would stop, put the aquastat back on, and do some basic troubleshooting in order to determine the reason for the problem.
Here is the PDF file for your aquastat:
Product
Was the 'RESET' button popped up? Did you push it? Nothing happened?
If there's a problem with the safety circuit in this aquastat, it could cause your problem.
I would probably spray something down into the immersion well. The heat compound that they use is silicone based, so I might first try getting some silicone lube down there. Then let it sit and see if it penetrates the stuff and loosens it up. After a few hours, try wiggling it around... if that don't work, I might try some 'PB Blaster' in the same way.
If you can't get it out, you will be faced with replacing the aquastat, and draining the boiler to replace the immersion well.
If I were you though, I would stop, put the aquastat back on, and do some basic troubleshooting in order to determine the reason for the problem.
Here is the PDF file for your aquastat:
Product
#33
02-21-12, 09:06 AM
A little more...
Look at that PDF file first, try to understand the schematic diagram Figure 11.
You will see the safety circuit at the lower right of the diagram. If your burner did not fire, and the safety tripped, when the boiler cooled below the low limit temp, it would disable the circulator.
So, you COULD actually have a bad solder joint on the burner relay that would cause this.
You need to 'follow the voltage':
When there is a heat call, do you have 120VAC at the ZR terminal?
Do you have voltage at the R terminal on the HIGH LIMIT circuit?
By measuring these points, you can get a better idea of where the problem actually lies.
Look at that PDF file first, try to understand the schematic diagram Figure 11.
You will see the safety circuit at the lower right of the diagram. If your burner did not fire, and the safety tripped, when the boiler cooled below the low limit temp, it would disable the circulator.
So, you COULD actually have a bad solder joint on the burner relay that would cause this.
You need to 'follow the voltage':
When there is a heat call, do you have 120VAC at the ZR terminal?
Do you have voltage at the R terminal on the HIGH LIMIT circuit?
By measuring these points, you can get a better idea of where the problem actually lies.
