Taco 007-F5 Circulation pump suddenly having problems... replacements are loud.

Reply

  #1  
Old 12-31-11, 05:30 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 30
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Taco 007-F5 Circulation pump suddenly having problems... replacements are loud.

Hi there,
Thanks for checking out this thread.

I'm living in a house which had a new boiler put in 2 years ago. It's a peerless something with a nice blower/igniter deal.

I was here when it was installed and the tech. was a great guy, telling me I wouldn't have to worry about these Taco pumps for 10 yers!!

Imagine my surprise on Christmas eve morning 2011, when just 2 years later I have no heat on the lower floor. I'm pretty good with my hands and very technical in nature. In 10 mins the problem was identified as the circulation pump. A black Taco 007-F5 Pump. Luckily the guy had put valves right where they should be and I closed them on either side of the pump and removed it.

Sure enough, when electricity is applied to the pump it would not start, just sit there buzzing and getting hot. However if you spun the impeller with your finger, to get it started, it would then rotate on its own.

Seeing how it was xmas morning, the only real solution here was to run to home depot and buy a replacement. I wasn't about to pay 200/hr for a boiler tech to come do what I could do.

The replacement went great. Out with the old, in with the new.

However.....this pump WAS MUCH LOUDER in operation than the old one. It also was louder than the pump for the second floor (which is still running with no problems, whisper silent).

I dismissed it as a lemon and returned it to home depot. Had them give me another and installed the one 2 days later and all was well in the world. The new one was silent.....just like it should be.

Now, 3 or 4 days later. The 2nd replacement........is just as noisy as the first replacement!! You can hear the vibration in the pipes and it's about 300% louder than the upstairs original pump!

My question to you is..... why would a pump be silent in operation for a few days and then suddenly get loud?

I did not change ANYTHING in the 3 days of operation and the heating system was used pretty normally in those days.

In this video, the second floor pump is already on (rear pump) and the first floor pump kicks on about 2/3rds of the way in. Keep in mind, these are brand new pumps.

http://tinypic.$$$/r/jl2l3n/5
(It appears this website doesn't like links change the dollars signs to ".com"

If I have to return the second "new" pump, I'm ok with that. However I just want to make sure a noise like this showing up 3 days after installation isn't my fault... thanks for your time!
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 12-31-11, 05:43 PM
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,947
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Yikes. That doesn't sound right. Tacos are good pumps. I wonder what their warranty is. What is the pressure of your system and at what temperature?

This forum doesn't allow links from tinypic. You can post links from other photo sites though.

Taco has a 3 year warranty for defective pumps proven to be used under normal circumstances.
 
  #3  
Old 12-31-11, 06:06 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 30
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Yeah, I'm not concerned about having taco pay for stuff. I just want a nice quiet circulator like I've had for the past 2 years!!

I guess the question is:
1. Why did the professionally installed circulator suddenly fail to start?
2. Why did the 1st replacement exhibit this loud noise right off the bat
3. Why did the 2nd replacement sound great at first, but then 3 days later sounds just as loud as the one in the video? Even though nothing was changed in the system......

System pressure was right around 12 when cold and 18 when hot.

I did notice it was closer to 22 when the noise first happened again....but I let some water out of the system to lower it back down to 18ish...when hot.
 
  #4  
Old 12-31-11, 06:20 PM
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,947
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
You should not set your pressure when hot. It should be 12 psi when cold. If it gets to 20 when hot, that is fine.
 
  #5  
Old 12-31-11, 07:48 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 3 Votes on 2 Posts
I'm thinking cavitation... but why after 2 years? weird... no clue.
 
  #6  
Old 12-31-11, 07:53 PM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,917
Received 7 Votes on 7 Posts
What does the temp/pressure gauge say? If it's cavitation, jack up the system pressure a few psi, and that should cure it.
 
  #7  
Old 12-31-11, 07:55 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 30
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I will jack up the pressure a little bit right now and tomorrow I will attempt to "bleed" all the air out again.

Gotta love these little issues
 
  #8  
Old 12-31-11, 07:59 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 30
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
currently 20psi 187 F and the noise remains.

ps. happppppppy new year!!

I suppose if bleeding the air out doesn't fix the problem I will just buy another one and return the "second replacement"


Who knows, so far I've bought them both from the same home depot. Yet the upstairs pump remains silent.
 
  #9  
Old 12-31-11, 08:01 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 3 Votes on 2 Posts
You sure a valve didn't accidentally get bumped closed somehow?

Maybe HD had all the factory rejects on the shelf? You know they are going to tape the box shut on the one you returned and put it back on the shelf...
 
  #10  
Old 12-31-11, 08:15 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 30
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I'm very sure no valve got bumped shut. I'm the only one that lives in the house and no one else has been inside for at least 2 weeks. Even when that person was here, it was before xmas eve

I'm going to order one from amazon and return the HD one when I get them swapped out this week.


I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something that more experienced people would say "Duh dude, you didn't do THIS step and that's why you have this annoying loud pump!"

At this point.....it seems like that isn't the case and I've just gotten two bum units.
 
  #11  
Old 01-03-12, 06:55 AM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Noisy Taco 007-F5 - same issue

I believe I have the same problem with my new Taco 007-F5 circulator. My old 007-F3 was progressivly getting louder and sometimes making cavitation sounds so I convinced the Homeserve tech (I have a service contract) to swap it out with a new one. The new one ran silent for the rest of the day, but started getting louder the next day, and is now louder than the 10-year old 007-F3 it replaced.

The zone with the issue is the upstairs zone so I am thinking that either initial air may have damaged the new circulator, or maybe this zone needs a more powerful circulator. It covers about 1,200 square feet, and lots of right angles on the pipes to go up and down out of the floor into the different rooms.

There was some gurgling in the pipes initially after it was replaced, so I did a long "power purge" with a garden hose and took care of that myself after the tech left. That didn't fix the problem.

My system is standard Burnham boiler with two zones of heating and on Indirect hot water zone. I have the Honeywell Aquatrol reset panel controlling everything. The piping is old and the circulators are mounted at the return of the boiler and pull hot water through the zones. I have a 1-year old spirovent air separator and expansion tank that was installed with the new hot water heater.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

My DHW uses a three speed Grunfos that is so quiet I can't even tell when it is running, should I buy one of those for the heating or spluge on the Alpha2 instead of the standard Taco?
 
  #12  
Old 01-03-12, 07:14 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 30
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
My Second replacement did have some paint missing from it...... I installed it anyway and was happy with it's silent operation.

However now that paint missing has me wondering if it was a refurb... anyway, I've got one ordered from an online store, should arrive shortly. Hopefully homedepot just gets the noisy ones...? It wouldn't be a big deal if the boiler was in the basement, but there is no basement here and all that is between me and the pump is a 4 or 5 inch wall.
 
  #13  
Old 01-07-12, 08:44 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 30
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Swapped the 2nd pump (home depot) with the 3rd (amazon) yesterday. So far so good. Ran about 20 gallons of water through the system to get rid of air...........no bubbles and nice and quiet.
 
  #14  
Old 01-07-12, 08:58 AM
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: US
Posts: 552
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
NJT:
Maybe HD had all the factory rejects on the shelf? You know they are going to tape the box shut on the one you returned and put it back on the shelf...
hmmmm... make one wonder,
or was it humm..
 
  #15  
Old 01-08-12, 08:38 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 30
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
And it's back...... I'll run another 20 or so gallons through it to be sure there's no air, but at this point I guess I'm willing to accept that maybe the NEWER ones are just louder then they were 3 years ago?

I might just swap the start capacitors and put the old one back in!!
 
  #16  
Old 01-09-12, 06:03 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 30
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Does the old saying "They Just don't make them like they used to?" apply here?

2 or 3 year old pump running....
Oil - YouTube

2 or 3 year old pump running in the backround, 3rd "new" pump kicks on. The clicking is the boiler on a startup sequence.
Oil - YouTube

This loud pump WAS quiet like the old one, for about 36 hours of use. I have put about 25 gallons of water through the pipes trying to purge them of air. I'm open to all suggestions..



For some reason when the first floor therm calls for heat, the boiler kicks on right away.. the upstairs (old pump) does not do that. I really would like to STOP the downstairs from doing this but that's another thread.
 
  #17  
Old 01-09-12, 06:20 PM
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: US
Posts: 552
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I dunno' J.
My 20+ year old one's are quieter.
Something doesn't make sense.

It sounds like some of my old beat up koi pond pumps after they have run dry too many times.

Peter
 
  #18  
Old 01-09-12, 06:25 PM
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: US
Posts: 552
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Hello J.,
I can't tell wich way are they pumping?

Didn't i read somehwere that those pumps should have 18" of straight pipe into, and maybe out of them?

Peter
 
  #19  
Old 01-09-12, 06:29 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 30
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
They are pumping in an upwards flow. They def do not have 18 inches in and out...

I just don't understand why it would be fine the first day or two and now this. I admit I could be purging the air wrong, but I don't believe so and if I was.... wouldn't the other pump develop some noise due to air in the system?
 
  #20  
Old 01-09-12, 06:41 PM
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: US
Posts: 552
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by J3ffrey View Post
They are pumping in an upwards flow. They def do not have 18 inches in and out...

I just don't understand why it would be fine the first day or two and now this. I admit I could be purging the air wrong, but I don't believe so and if I was.... wouldn't the other pump develop some noise due to air in the system?
It could be because, it tkes a few days to ruin the pump.
There sheould be more straight pipe into the pump.


OK J.,
Time to back uo a bit.
Set back and take lots of pictures from different angles.
Where is the air vent, and expansion tank on the system?

Peter
 
  #21  
Old 01-09-12, 06:48 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 30
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I'll take a video of the whole system tomorrow......up in bed at the moment. That would stink if I've ruined 3 pumps!!

The original pump did fail pretty quickly though....however it still was not as loud as these replacements have been......and I still do have it.
 
  #22  
Old 01-09-12, 07:07 PM
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: US
Posts: 552
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Would be really good to get some high quality stills.
Anyone you can borrrow a digital camera from?

I get seasick too easy.

Peter
 
  #23  
Old 01-09-12, 07:24 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 30
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
haha, I have plenty of cameras...filming was just going to be easier....I'll take stills though since you prefer that.
 
  #24  
Old 01-14-12, 09:03 AM
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 62
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Interesting mine is making what seems like the exact same noise as well. I bought mine in April 09. And every once in a while right from the start it would occasionally make a similar noise on start-up. I think its under warranty but I would like to know whats the cause. Since you dont seem to be fixing it by swapping them out I wonder what the problem is. Have you tried to contact Taco tech support?

Does yours make the noise constantly? Mine is really load when it first starts and quiets some after a few seconds. Its louder for longer if it hasn't been running for a few hours. The one thing I know I did before it started to get real bad was to try to close the output valve some to reduce the flow but I'll start a new topic on that.
 
  #25  
Old 01-14-12, 01:29 PM
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 62
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
  #26  
Old 01-14-12, 02:49 PM
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: US
Posts: 552
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Sparky,
Can you take some picture of the whole system?

What are the temperatures and pressures?

The last guy we asked for pictures went missing.


Peter
 
  #27  
Old 01-14-12, 03:59 PM
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 62
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Sparky,
Can you take some picture of the whole system?

What are the temperatures and pressures?

The last guy we asked for pictures went missing.


Peter
Probably should start a new thread, maybe its a different problem but here you go.
Pressure is 12psi cold, it gets to 14 or 15 psi hot. Checked the air in the tank and it must have dropped to 8psi at some point but refilled it to ~13psi and didn't notice any change. This is a modulating boiler with outdoor temperature reset but when the video was taken it was running at 155F. I wasn't getting the temperature drop in the loop like I wanted which is why I tried playing with the valves to reduce flow. Its only dropping 8-10 degrees in the house loop. That's nothing new though. I checked all the bleed screws and the autobleeders through the entire system, no air to be found.





 
  #28  
Old 01-14-12, 05:13 PM
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: US
Posts: 552
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Nice looking!

I dunno', maybe they don't make them like they used to?

WM gets the good ones...?
I'm guessing the black pump is nice and quiet?


Peter
 
  #29  
Old 01-14-12, 06:51 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 30
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Was a busy week at work will post some pics tomorrow. Pump is still working fine, just loud..
 
  #30  
Old 01-16-12, 07:47 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 30
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Sorry guys, I'm very thankful for your help, had an issue at work yesterday and am still trying to fix it today.
 
  #31  
Old 01-26-12, 07:45 PM
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 62
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Well last week I decided to return my pump while it was still under warranty. At first the plumbing supply gave me a hard time but then they called Taco and agreed it was still under warranty. Its kind of annoying though since you have to buy a new one and then they send the old one to Taco. Taco then inspects it and decides if its under warranty and then they refund your money but that could take 2 months.

Anyway the new pump was much quitter for the first few days. But its already gotten much louder in the past week. Entirely different noise then the first one. Its a much more consistent sound the entire time it is running. Almost like a very loud florescent light buzzing. Its actually really annoying to my ears.

Obviously this will be my last Taco product. Once I know for sure I am getting my money back for the last one I am pulling this one and sending it back as well. Then I will buy a different brand.
 
  #32  
Old 01-27-12, 02:35 AM
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: US
Posts: 552
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Hello Sparky,
Just for the heck of it..
Try upping the pressure in your system to 23 lbs.
See if that makes any difference.
It might be better if the straight sections before and after the pump were longer.
But i'm not sure if it would be the answer.

Peter
 
  #33  
Old 01-27-12, 05:07 PM
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 62
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Hello Sparky,
Just for the heck of it..
Try upping the pressure in your system to 23 lbs.
See if that makes any difference.
With the old pump when I did this it only made the noise louder. This pump it doesn't change the noise at all.
 
  #34  
Old 01-27-12, 07:06 PM
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: US
Posts: 552
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Forgot to ask, Sparky,
What size pump is that up there?
Looks big, but its probably just my old eyes.


Peter
 
  #35  
Old 01-27-12, 07:40 PM
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 62
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Its a 007. Its a 1/25 HP 0-23GPM and 0-10 ft of head
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: