Taco Cartridge Circulator Stuck on (i think)

Reply

  #1  
Old 01-19-12, 09:34 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 5
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Taco Cartridge Circulator Stuck on (i think)

I've been reading/searching these threads and others, and i think with diligence i have narrowed the problem to the Taco 007-F5.

Oil combo Boiler/Furnace. No zone valves. 2 zones. 2 circulators.

The upstairs zone is constantly heated even with thermostat removed. and Red/White wires removed from the relay(?) box to eliminate a possible chewed/crossed wire between thermostat and furnace.

From what i have read, if the circulator is stuck on, the furnace will kick on to keep that water heated.

QUESTION(s):
Do i replace the cartridge circulator 007-F5? Do i have to cut power? Cut water supply on one or both sides of the pump?
Can i temporarily fix this while waiting for the new one?

I have turned down the temp manually in the Honeywell relay box(?) with 2 little HI/LO dials to preserve oil. Will this lower my hot water temp?


I am a total noob to this stuff. 1st house. The only reason i even know any of these terms is thanks to great posts and replies in here. Special thanks to NJ Trooper for always popping up with relevant info on my queries.
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 01-19-12, 09:56 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,925
Received 8 Votes on 8 Posts
The pump will be controlled by a 24/120-V relay. The pump itself is not the problem, so don't replace it.

If you have a multimeter, and know how to use it safely, you can troubleshoot to find out why the relay isn't interrupting the power to the pump. If this is outside your skill level, you'll need to call somebody for help.

Yes, turning down the aquastat settings will reduce the the temp of the water. That may, in turn, cause the flue gas temp to run cooler, and possibly cause damaging condensation in the flue. Unless you understand what you are doing, I would leave such settings alone.
 
  #3  
Old 01-19-12, 10:11 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 3 Votes on 2 Posts
Is the circulator actually running?

I think your problem may be more along the lines of a 'stuck open' flow control valve which is allowing gravity flow to occur.
 
  #4  
Old 01-19-12, 10:35 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 5
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I think the circulator is NOT running constantnly.

I did find 2 of these:

Taco Flow Check - Bronze - 219-4

They look all limey and stuckish. Should i be able to move the knob thing on top? It is covered w/ hard-water buildup and doesn't move. I didn't want to force it.

Gilmorrie, I reset the dials on the triple aquastat L8124A, C L8151A back to LO=160 HI=180, the way it was before.

Thanks for the safety heads-up!
 
  #5  
Old 01-19-12, 10:48 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,925
Received 8 Votes on 8 Posts
OK, as suggested by Trooper, I think a leaking or stuck-open flo-control valve is allowing gravity flow when the pump is off. The operator on top is to jack open the valve during power failures. That won't help solve your problem, so leave it alone.

You could try rapping on the valve to see if the lift-check will drop down and shut when the pump is off. But, the permanent solution is to replace both of the flo-control valves. Depending on other isolation valves, that will likely require depressurizing and draining the system below th elevation of the valves. You will also need two large pipe wrenches. Hopefully, there is a union near each valve so you don't have to get out your sawzall.

If you can live with the situation, might be best to wait until spring.
 
  #6  
Old 01-19-12, 10:59 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 5
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
There are shutoffs...

Here is the flow check. Both seem pretty cruddy, and if that thing on top is supposed to move up and down, i can't imagine how in their current state, but the downstairs one seems fine.

I'll try rapping and look at the setup for unions and shutoffs. UPDATE: There are shutoff levers right before each flow check. If i close these, will i be able to swap out the valves or will i get water coming back up from the boiler?

cardgamesingles.com/images/Taco_Flow_Check_Valve_219-4.jpg

And in case this helps anyone, here is the Triple Aquastat Relay:

cardgamesingles.com/images/Honeywell_Aquastat_L8124A.jpg
 

Last edited by NJT; 01-19-12 at 06:03 PM.
  #7  
Old 01-19-12, 12:31 PM
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: US
Posts: 552
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Links uncovered to copy and past:
Direct linking seems not to work.

[Thanks, I changed 'em to URLs... NJT]

Peter
 

Last edited by NJT; 01-19-12 at 03:51 PM.
  #8  
Old 01-19-12, 04:00 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 3 Votes on 2 Posts
I dunno... I think that one don't look all that bad really... they need some service to fix the leaking packing on the stem, but other than that they should still be useable.

I wonder if someone didn't crank down on that packing nut in order to get that leak stopped? You might have to slightly loosen that packing nut to get that to move. BUT DON'T DO IT UNTIL you have a replacement packing in hand.

I would start with some PB Blaster, a few drops on the stem of the valve so that it runs down the stem into the packing. Let it sit... put a few more drops on... don't use too much cuz that stuff will stink up the whole basement! just a few drops... try to 'wiggle' the knob back and forth... if it don't move, put a couple more drops on and try again tomorrow... keep doing this and I bet that eventually the thing will come loose... it's worth a try!

Then, after you do get it moving, run it up and down a few times... try to free up the disc the easy way... don't make work for yourself... try the easy way first!

Then after it's working again, replace the packing on the valve stem.
 
  #9  
Old 01-19-12, 04:04 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 3 Votes on 2 Posts
There are shutoff levers right before each flow check. If i close these, will i be able to swap out the valves or will i get water coming back up from the boiler?
You'll get water... unless you have valves that can isolate the flo-chek on both sides.

Of course you'll shut off the water feed valve...

Depending on what other valving you have, you may be able to isolate much of the piping... YES, close the ones next to the flo-chek, but look for others too. Hopefully you will find valves which you can isolate the whole radiator run... then you only have to drain enough water to get the level below where you are working... and they look like they up pretty high, so you might not have to drain much at all...

But maybe you'll get 'lucky'...
 
  #10  
Old 01-19-12, 04:12 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 3 Votes on 2 Posts
By the way... is the LO setting that high for a reason? or is it just the way it was?

You are making domestic hot water with this boiler? (i.e. a 'tankless coil' inside the boiler, and no other hot water heater?)

Depending on the usage patterns in your home, and the condition of your tankless coil, you might be able to save a few bucks by lowering the LO setting to say 140° or so. That setting should only be as high as needed to get enough hot water to the home.

If you currently have no problems with the hot water, try 140 for a while and see how that goes. If the hot water suffers, then try 150... etc. Experiment, you can't hurt it... WITHIN REASON!

Do you know if there's a 'Tempering Valve' on your domestic hot water supply?
 
  #11  
Old 01-19-12, 05:18 PM
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: US
Posts: 552
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
[Thanks, I changed 'em to URLs... NJT]

Peter Last edited by NJ Trooper; Today at 05:51 PM.
Already tried that, it takes one to somewhere you don't want to be.

At least it does on this browser

[yeah, and on mine too... worked the first time! but then every time after that goes to some junk page... BULLSEYE, please don't post any more photo links like that... it is diverting the browser and this is NOT a good thing! - NJT edit]

P
 

Last edited by NJT; 01-19-12 at 06:06 PM.
  #12  
Old 01-21-12, 11:40 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 5
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
The other stem is much worse

Sorry about the images before. I just used the insert image tool on the post. Maybe it was quick-reply? How should it be done?

I took a pic of the back one, but if it doesn't show, trust me the stem(?) is all white and crusty. The plastic knob thing has corroded off. I found pieces of it on the shelf under the valve.

http://www.globalamericaninc.com/ima..._219-4_Top.jpg

What is "packing" on the stem? So my goal is to loosen these up and they should float? Do they release steam? I noted some water stain on the joist above one of them. and i imagine the calcium is coming from escaping water. Is this normal?


I will try turning my low down and test.
 
  #13  
Old 01-21-12, 12:29 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 3 Votes on 2 Posts
You didn't necessarily do anything wrong with the image linking, it's just that the server you placed them on 'redirects' hits to that URL to some other weird place... it doesn't appear that the new link does the same...

This is a 'cutaway' of a regular valve.



It's basically the same principle with the packing... below the nut just below the valve handle there is a 'packing' material that is flexible and intended to seal around the stem. The more that packing nut is tightened, the more it compresses that material. Over time the stuff may dry out and shrink... and then it leaks... and that new pic shows a valve that has been leaking a LONG time!

You can rebuild those valves if you can find the parts. It may not be the easiest job in the world to get that old 'core' out, but with the PROPER wrenches (NOT a pair of pliers please!) it can be done. You MUST hold the valve body itself with one wrench, and turn the nut with the other... you will likely be on a ladder... when that thing comes loose, BE PREPARED! DO NOT LOSE YOUR BALANCE AND FALL!

Here is a PDF of replacement parts for your valve:

http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/Fil...eck101-004.pdf

In view of the condition of the second valve, I don't know that I would attempt to repair it (them), and I wouldn't be surprised at all if the cost of the repair kit is the same as or more than a new valve. And repacking them... well, you still need to get the knob off in order to get the nut off and the new packing in place.

219-4 - Taco 219-4 - 3/4" CxC Horizontal (Bronze) Taco Flo-Chek

Maybe you can just buy the new valve and take the 'guts' out and put in the old body?

So my goal is to loosen these up and they should float? Do they release steam? I noted some water stain on the joist above one of them. and i imagine the calcium is coming from escaping water. Is this normal?
As mentioned, I don't think at this point it would be wise to try anything... at least until the heating season is done... and you are prepared to replace them.

Is the problem persisting? Did you try 'rapping' on them? (don't knock them senseless, just a firm rap to try and shake the disc loose) Did that help?

Float? not exactly... look at the picture in the PDF file. That big part is a weight that covers a hole when the pump is not running and prevents gravity flow. When the pump runs, it pushes it up and water flows. The 'handle' manually lifts the weight for use when a pump fails... you can still get gravity flow in an emergency.

No steam will come out, you have a hot water system. I can't imagine that valve would leak enough to spray water up to that joist... that may have come from above... just a coincidence... but who knows? maybe it did spray?

It's normal for leaking stuff on a heating system to get all calciumed up like that... because the pipes are hot... and a slow leak will often evaporate before the drop hits the floor... leaving behind any minerals in the water.
 

Last edited by NJT; 01-21-12 at 02:57 PM.
  #14  
Old 01-21-12, 02:04 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 5
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks

I'm gonna pick up a valve today for about $40.

Rapping did solve the problem, but for how long?... I'd like to have the new valve on hand just in case.

What did you mean by "at least until the heating system is done"?
 
  #15  
Old 01-21-12, 02:56 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 3 Votes on 2 Posts
Oooops... I meant heating SEASON ... sorry 'bout dat. I'll edit my post... thanks!

but for how long?
Could be a long time... could be not... maybe you'll get lucky!
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: