Got a Free Boiler from Inlaws...no instructions....


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Old 02-28-12, 01:54 PM
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Got a Free Boiler from Inlaws...no instructions....

Hi ...

I was able to inherent an old wood boiler from my inlaws that has not been used in 20 some years. It is an 1985 Mascott model MW-100. This is an indoor wood boiler that I am using outdoors to heat the floor in my new detached garage.

The boiler has two Honeywell aquastats...L4006A is used to set the water temp in the boiler...when the temp is reached the switch breaks and this closes the door on the draft. L4006B is used to turn on a circulating pump when the water reaches a set temp...

I bought a 3 zone Erie SR301 to control my 3 zones. Zone 1 would be for my garage floor...later on I might decide to use zones 2 and 3 in my house. The SR301 has connections for the L4006A & B. Why is that? I thought that I would just run power to the L4006A...when the thermostat reads above the set temp the power will break and the draft will close...5F below the set temp and the power connects and the draft opens. Why would I want to connect this to the SR-301? Is it just supplying power?

Also I am not sure the purpose of L4006B...I was told that most people run there boilers in a constant loop all the time anyway. Is there an advantage that I am not aware of?

I appreciate any help you guys can offer... I almost forgot. What is the significance of the water jacket volume besides stored energy? The reason I ask is that this boiler seems to hold only 10 gallons...I noticed that despite this it heated my garage floor up from 33 to 70F in about 18 hours. This is a 28X40 area...do you think that this is too little volume to run into my house?


Thanks again...I really appreciate any help.

Hartwa
 
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Old 02-28-12, 04:23 PM
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Also I am not sure the purpose of L4006B...I was told that most people run there boilers in a constant loop all the time anyway. Is there an advantage that I am not aware of?
Why not automate the pump control? If the fire goes out why not shut the pump down automatically?

The SR301 has connections for the L4006A & B.
It does?

http://www.tac.com/data/internal/dat.../F_27019_1.pdf

The SR panels have connections for room thermostats (or a domestic indirect water heater). There are connections for the circulating pumps. There are connections to fire a gas or oil fired boiler.

In your application, (which may not be completely practical by the way, we'll talk about the reasons later on), you would not be connecting the 4006 controls to the SR panel. They should be left connected to whatever they are connected to.

I can't really give you a proper answer on the 'water jacket' question because there are other things you must have an understanding of.

This is an indoor wood boiler that I am using outdoors to heat the floor in my new detached garage.
Is the boiler in a shelter of some sort that keeps the boiler out of the elements?

How exactly are you heating the floors in the garage? Tell us what you've done there... PEX tubing embedded in concrete?
 
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Old 02-29-12, 07:25 AM
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Thanks for your response...

Isn't ZR and ZC the connections for the two aquastats? one breaks on temperature rise and one makes on temp rise.

Right now the aquastates are not connected to anything...I just have the boiler the aquastats are in the box.

I have pex tubing in my concrete for my attached garage. I will build an inclosure around the boiler this summer.

Thanks again for the help.
Hartwa
 
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Old 02-29-12, 02:22 PM
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Isn't ZR and ZC the connections for the two aquastats?
No. The connections on that terminal strip are for firing a gas or oil boiler. They have nothing at all to do with the wood boiler controls.

Right now the aquastates are not connected to anything
Then how? >

I noticed that despite this it heated my garage floor up from 33 to 70F in about 18 hours.
You were running it without the controls attached?

I have pex tubing in my concrete for my attached garage.
Is the tubing an OXYGEN BARRIER type? for HEATING systems, NOT for potable water supply?

You will need some more 'hardware'... you shouldn't run the HOT HOT water from the boiler through the slab. You will crack it possibly. The water going to that slab should be limited to about 120 maximum. You do this by using a TEMPERING VALVE to run cooler water in the slab.
 
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Old 03-01-12, 12:14 PM
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Yeah....I ran for a day or so without the controls...I was monitoring the fire manually and checking the temperature. I was closing the draft on the door maunally.

The tubing is oxy barrier...I will put a mixing valve in the garage when / if I decide to use the boiler for anything else but my garage.

Right now I have the 4006A controller powered up. From there is runs to a 24VAC step down transducer which powers the door on my draft. I got it set to 110F. Alone...that should control my water temp...door shuts at 110 and opens at 105F.

Inside the garage.....I have the pump on a 120V thermostat. Quite simply when the temp in the garage drops below 55F the pump turns on and begins heating the floor. Soon after...the water temp in my boiler will drop to 105F which will cause my draft to open and the fire to heat up.

I think that this should work for the "rough" temp control I would like in my garage....as long as I can maintain a fire with the minimum load my garage will require and a low water temp of 110F...advice?

If I decide to use the boiler in my house at some other point I will use the SR-301...although I really do not see the benefit of these relay systems. What are the benefits...I really do not see why there are needed?
 
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Old 03-01-12, 02:46 PM
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Are you currently running the boiler with straight water?

Are you running this as an 'open' to the atmosphere system? In other words, is there PRESSURE in the system or no?

If you are running this thing open, and that is a cast iron boiler, there will be enough oxygen dissolved in the water to turn that boiler into a pile of rust on the inside in fairly short order.

In order to run as a CLOSED and PRESSURIZED system as I suspect that boiler is intended, given it's low 10 gallon water capacity, you would need some other components. An EXPANSION TANK, and AIR ELIMINATION device, a PRESSURE REDUCING VALVE to fill the system with... in total, everything you would need on an oil or gas fired boiler would be needed to do this properly with that boiler.

do not see the benefit of these relay systems. What are the benefits...I really do not see why there are needed?
Running a single pump on a line voltage thermostat in the garage is one thing... but 99.99% of installations use 24VAC control systems.

That said, the relay boxes provide a convenient way of running a line voltage load from a low voltage control circuit.

Basically, they are a convenience ... instead of using a separate relay for each thermostat, they put all the relays in one box and eliminate a 'rats nest' of wiring. Cleaner more professional looking install.

Next, when zoning a system with circulators, in ADDITION to turning the pump on and off, there has to be a way to signal the boiler system that there is a heat call, and that's what the extra terminals are for. When any one of the thermostats calls for heat, the boiler will be called to fire up. This is in addition to turning on the pump.
 
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Old 03-02-12, 07:49 AM
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I am using this as a closed system...with 40% Propylene glycol. The jugs say that they contain rust inhibitors as well. It is just basic RV antifreeze.

I installed a 5 gallon expansion tank of the supply line. I have a way to prime everything to get the air out while I am filliing it. Did not know about the pressure reducing valve....my relief valve on the boiler is 30PSI....I suppose I will have to check my pump and see what it is rated for? that would be the max head pressure???
 
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Old 03-02-12, 08:17 AM
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Helllo,
The static water pressure in the boiler has nothing to do with the max head of a pump.
The max head is simply how much push the pump has to overcome resitance in the piping.

Peter
 
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Old 03-02-12, 10:20 AM
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I'm not certain of this... but would question whether RV antifreeze is rated for the temperature extremes that it would be subjected to in boiler service.

One brand of boiler antifreeze is 'Cryotek'.

Obviously you know NOT to use automotive anti-freeze because you haven't, but check the label of the RV stuff to see if it is suitable.

If you are manually pressurizing the system (which is OK as long as you watch your gauge), you should fill it to 12 PSI when COLD.
 
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Old 03-05-12, 09:01 AM
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Thanks for the help. I charged the system Friday after work to 12 PSI like you said. I have a little leak at the relief valve...other than that it is holding.

I collected about 1/4 gallon of antifreeze since Friday night from the relief valve. I will change that out and repressurize it. I forgot to check the pH of my antifreeze...as I understand it that is the only thing that they check to dtermine if you need more corrosion inhibitor.
 
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Old 03-05-12, 02:18 PM
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While it's possible that the relief valve is defective after having sat that long without being used, don't be surprised if the new one leaks too.

If it does, it would be wise to make sure the expansion tank is properly sized, and that the pressure on the system doesn't approach 30 PSI when fully HOT.
 
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Old 03-06-12, 06:24 AM
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I got the pressure relief valve to stop leaking by "reseatting it" a bit. I did this by pushing down on the stem and twisting it back and forth with a pliers.

I recharged it and it is holding at 12 psi with no leaks. The exp tank is 5 gallons and the charge on that is also 12 psi.

I added two bottles of corrrosion inhibitor. My ininal pH was around 6. After the two bottles the pH strips look more like 9 or 10...definately above 8.5.

I decided that with all the excess capacity I will have with this boiler...I might as well run it to my house and use it for heat and hot water. I only plan to keep my garage at 50F. I would like to draw up a diagram showing how I plan to run the loop and see what you think? I willhave to figure out how to post a diagram here.
 
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Old 03-08-12, 11:13 AM
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I am looking at getting a mixing or tempering valve to limit the temp of the water going through my concrete. Do I need to consider the top temp of my boiler?

The valves list a temp range but I suspect that this is only for the exit temp. The one I am looking at is 60 - 120F. Can A use that if I plan to run my boiler at 180F - 200F...ect?

By the way...what temp should my boiler be at?

Thanks for all the help...
 
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Old 03-08-12, 02:58 PM
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The valves list a temp range but I suspect that this is only for the exit temp. The one I am looking at is 60 - 120F. Can A use that if I plan to run my boiler at 180F - 200F...ect?
I believe you may be looking at a model for domestic water heating. They have limited and lower ranges than the ones used for radiant heating... same basic valve, just a different range.

Tell us what make/model you are looking at!

what temp should my boiler be at?
I would say that you want the high limit to be less than 200F. The design normal 'standard' for hot water heating systems is 180F.

There's something else that needs to be considered for a wood boiler setup... There should be what is called a 'dump zone', which is a zone that is set up to quickly dissipate any excess heat. Let's say that the automatic damper malfunctions... and the boiler starts glowing red hot... you need a place to dump that heat, quickly, to prevent a meltdown or fire. I know your boiler is outdoors, but you should still have something like this for safety.

Speaking of SAFETY, make absolutely certain that the RELIEF VALVE is piped to the ground and AWAY from where any bystanders could ever be hit by the outflow in the event it opens. A shower in 180 water can KILL YOU!

Another thing to consider is what happens in the event of a POWER FAILURE? Very often, these dump zones are set up for GRAVITY flow so that they will work when the power fails.

If you can't find the information for YOUR boiler, do some research and learn about OTHER wood boilers. Download the installation manuals and read them to understand the specific requirements of installing a wood fired boiler system.

Keep in mind that much of what you are going to find on the net are installations of OUTDOOR, NON-PRESSURIZED systems. These are NOT what you are looking for, but some of the principles still apply. You need to focus on PRESSURIZED systems.
 
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Old 03-08-12, 03:05 PM
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Take a look at this document:

http://www.woodboilers.com/admin/upl...tic0111Web.pdf

There are plenty of piping examples included.

Note in particular the 'dump zone' previously mentioned.
 
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Old 03-09-12, 07:03 AM
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Thanks for all the help.

The relief valve is plumped to the floor. I will look into what is needed for the dump zone...

I buddy of mine at work has an extra mixing valve.... It is a ESBE 8114. The range on this one is 95 -140F. This should work for my concrete tubing?
 
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Old 03-09-12, 03:01 PM
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I'm not familiar with the ESBE valves, but if it has the correct temp range (looks OK), and the correct pipe size ( NOT 1/2" ) ... then it should be OK.
 
 

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