Need a new bolier, need some help

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Old 03-05-12, 06:44 AM
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Need a new bolier, need some help

Bought a house I just have a oil fired bolier, no hot water tank or anything running basebord three zone. 1960 2,200 sq ft slit. The house has good windows and insul. no cold air coming in at all. Im going to add more insul to the attic soon. so that will help but my porblem. I take hot shower 20 min once a day not using much hot water anywhere else and heats set at 58 Im using 180gals of oil a month here And its not a cold winter. The boilers a handy mans, I was told my my oil company from 1987. It was rebuilt it in 2010 with a new motor pressor tank zones and so on because they where not getting hot water from it. Its jetted to 1.8!!!!! first off thats crazy I was told all I need is like 1.2 max for my house. So Im thinking they jeted it up to make the water hot. I had it cleaned and they said it was running 81% but its just a s..... design boiler.

What's my options here and what can I do? Oil company want to sell me a mpo with a indirect water tank for like 6 to 9k.

I have a plumber that can install it for coast. He service boilers and installs them. I was talking to him about installing a indirect water tank. He said if I help him 250. to install it. Plus parts and the tank. I know that will help some with my oil bills but should I get a new boiler all at the same time or what? and if so whats the best boilers out there that works and are deisgned to work with indirect tanks with the highest Efficiency. Somebody told me one but I forgot the name it was something 3000 and it was made in the usa.

thanks for any help.
 
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Old 03-05-12, 11:01 AM
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180 gal. isnt bad if you live in Northern Alaska, but if you live in south Texas might be a bit much
 
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Old 03-05-12, 12:41 PM
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NY, going by what family has said when I asked them. My dad used that much oil and his house is 3500sqft kept at 70 and all the windows are shot so you can feel the cold air coming right in.

Ow I found that boiler its the engery kinetice system 2000.
 
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Old 03-05-12, 02:22 PM
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Sounds like your boiler is over fired, beyond sanity.
A tremendous amount of heat must be going up the chimney.

The MPO is a very fine boiler.
IMO, you would be miles ahead to install one, plus an indirect. Maybe a 20 gallon indirect would likely do the job and save a few bucks over a larger tank.
The System 2000 is good, but it needs to be installed and serviced by folks that know all about it.
Otherwise forget about it.

Sounds like good deal to go for the MPO.

Any chance for natural gas where you live?

Last January i used over 150 gallons.
this year - just under 100.

Peter
 
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Old 03-05-12, 02:49 PM
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I'm with Peter. An MPO with a 20-30 gal indirect, outdoor reset with domestic hot water priority would be a fine system. Burnham has their "IQ" package with those ODR and DHW functions, or use a third-party like Taco PC700 or tekmar 260.

Size the boiler to the building heat loss. But in this case probably smallest MPO is going to do you fine. I think that's the 84.
MPO-IQ info
 
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Old 03-05-12, 03:23 PM
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The boilers a handy mans,
What exactly does that mean? I don't know that maker...

Seriously, what is the make and model of the boiler?
 
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Old 03-06-12, 06:43 AM
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I know the dam think fires every ten mins just to keep it self warm To keep warm Im going to live in the chimmy soon hahah

Ok thats what I was reading with that system 2000. I was really looking at the MPO-IQ with the computer on top and doing a 40 gal indirect. Not shore how you're so post to connect it but the plubmer said everything gose through the tank, meaning any hot water in the house or hot water for the base bord.

hahah I know Ill get it tonight and the btus

No N gas on my street.
 
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Old 03-06-12, 05:35 PM
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The indirect is piped off the boiler like a heating zone. There is a coil inside the tank that hot boiler water runs through. The domestic water fills the tank. That is how the heat is transfered. Hot water for your baseboards will not run through the tank.
 
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Old 04-19-12, 06:19 AM
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Well I figured I would bring this post back. I need more input here. The oil company said what they did about the boiler. Had a plumber come look at it that works on them, replaced and cleans them up. He told me that its fine. its got a new motor on it and that is where you safe your oil on. it is jetted high but he said he can change the jet and clean the boiler and make it run at 87%. He said its a cast iran boiler so its a good boiler. He said a new boiler is a waste of money because the best one out there the mpo still only gets 87%. He said I need to add the indirect tank and that will safe me 15 to 20% on oil. He said you should use around 5 gal. a day of oil. I have two answers that are 180 from one another.

I'll see if I can find a name on the boiler tonight. I used 900 gals of oil from November to now with the heat at 58 all three zones and I only turned the bedrooms up to 60 at night.
 
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Old 04-19-12, 08:04 AM
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Hi Mike,
I don't know what part of NY you live in. Way up north i hope.
Around here in extreme south east New Hampshire in the coldest of winters, i might use 180 gallons of oil in January. My house is very well insulated but closer to 3000 sf ft.
If you don't get a new boiler with an indirect, then i'd strongly consider getting an electric water heater and converting the boiler to cold start. yesterday. !!

With my experience of adding a buffer tank to my system and replacing everthing, in the cellar, except the boiler, i'd say getting a new MPO and indirect installed for $6000 is a very very good price and if i were you i'd 'd highly consider it.

Peter
 
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Old 04-19-12, 07:35 PM
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I live in the hudson valley it never got colder then low 20s at night here and no snow this year. My house it good. Walls all are r19 attics only r 19 doubled. I want to blow it in there to make it a good r50 but the little snow we got this weater the snow was still on my roof so that was a good sign. windos are great no cold air coming through at all.

Got the name and info of what I have. Not shore how good it is.







thats the spec on it.
 
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Old 04-20-12, 08:28 AM
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Mike, you and and I are on the same latitude, but Im in CT. You and I also share similar sizing and house fitments, winter conditions, etc. And I am also upgrading my heating system as well.

Am going with a low-mass Biasi and 40 gallon indirect HW heater but before I have it changed out here in the next 2 months or so, just ironing out the remaining details and sorting through the installer quotes. I've done loads of research over the course of a year.

Based on the info of nameplate for your boiler I'd say that thing is WAY OVERSIZED and that's why the burner is cycling every 10 minutes! (My existing boiler is orig. wood/coal burning with an oil burner retrofit rated at 143,000)

BTW, i like how you use the term 'jetted' - you must be intimate with tuning carbruetors?
 
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Old 04-20-12, 12:49 PM
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I would venture to GUESS that your boiler is at least 100% oversized and I say at least. I would also agree that the MPO-IQ-84 may work. Need to do a heat loss.
The MPO-IQ is a fine boiler due to being a three pass boiler. That means the flue gasses when the burner is firing goes to the back of the boiler, turn up, come forward in the center two flue passes, rolls left and right and goes back again to the exit of the boiler. The longer the flue gases are in the boiler the more heat you extract from the flue gases into the water heating your house or hot water.
The IQ control strategy will save you money in service down the road as it troubleshoots itself and also reads codes from the oil burner primary control and displays it on the boiler display. A touchscreen is an available option to make it even easier.
Out of the box are somegood features like circulator pre-purge, being able to read resistance on the fire eye (cad cell), frost protection. Add ODR, LWCO and the control will also help troubleshoot those controls. ODR will add to your fuel savings.
Some say I have a warm spot in my heart for the MPO........yep!
For more info on reasons for a heat loss follow this link.
http://comfort-calc.net/faq.html
 
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Old 04-20-12, 12:57 PM
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ok thats good to know. yes i know I was thinking the house should be 95,000 to 110,000 btus but i have to do the cal. to see. thats the one I was looking at. I know the new ones are thripple by pass and thats a lot better thrn what i have. Thats what I was telling the plumber. hes trying to save me money but I think I should just replace the hole thing with the mpo with the computer on it and tank. thats going to get me the best or using the least amount of oil. the wife wants a number though meaning what is the % of oil we will save going with all new stuff.

So is it even realistic to say jet it down to 110,000 btus and get more air into it. will that work or no?

haha just into cars, so I just use car talk sometime.
 

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Old 04-21-12, 09:16 PM
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You can try 'jetting' the burner for a lower rated nozzle, but I don't think downsizing is going to optimize your boiler operation. The boiler you have is rated for X BTU/hr which means it requires a burner nozzle sized to supply a specific volume fuel to the fire. If you reduce your fuel supply with a smaller nozzle then it will take longer for the boiler water to reach setpoint temperature, basically the fire will burn longer so you're not really saving any fuel.

The larger the boiler = more cast iron or steel (whichever it's constructed of) and there is also a greater volume of water within the heat exchanger, both are absorbing heat.

The goal of my boiler replacement is to reduce my consumption by 30% - it's a pipedream but I pride myself on being a mizer - if I get at least 15% then I know I am somewhat getting ahead of where I've been.
 
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Old 04-24-12, 08:10 AM
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i'm a relative novice here but i did get involved on my low mass with indirect conversion a few years ago so i have a few observations

first off, if you can get gas, do it. you are in NY and i'm assuming you can get it as cheap as us here in PA (hope so at least) and your savings even on a totally new system will payback quickly...my utilities website said i'd save over 2000 a year and others on this forum have posted their numbers and it's not out of the realm to do so. i was burning 1200 Plus gallons with my 227K unit that was keeping that domestic hot all year but hey, i got free drying in the laundry room for all that heat

went to low mass indirect and immediately went to 900 gallons

now i have call into the gas company

regarding the windows you keep saying are tight, i highly recommend you pay a few hundred for an energy audit and make sure he has thermal ..my guy didnt and i regret it..i was amazed by what was leaking..all switches and outlets were incredible and all the woodwork under the windows was drafty as heck..even on the new windows! also there was air coming in around the wood around my doors..just bit of caulk cleared that up. point being, you may be getting in air where you never though and the blower door test is fantastic for figuring that out.

also you are on the right track doing a heat loss calculation..somewhere on this forum i posted a more recent link to the good program used to do this. slant fin program..works very well.
 
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Old 04-30-12, 11:35 AM
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There is no gas in the area for me here.

ok

Yep I know. This is what I did . caulked around all window molding sills , switches, outlets, ceilng lights, painted with a oil base tha say its like a vaper bar., put the foam insul. pipe tubs on all copper pipes, even in each room where there was no fins and taped. and used those insul. switch pads on all switches and outlets inside and out side walls. I went crazy haha. and caulked around where the floor meets the molding so there was no air coming from there either.

I still want to have somebody come in and look and tell me want else I need or if I did enough.
 
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Old 04-30-12, 05:42 PM
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A full-on assessment requires a "blower door test" and thermal IR imagery from a building diagnostics person. This is literally some of the best money you can spend on your house. They generally take a couple hours and run in the $200-400 range in most parts of the country. You'll get a solid assessment of your building performance, and a roadmap for improving it. Great stuff.
 
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Old 04-30-12, 06:58 PM
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Your existing boiler is probably 100% oversized. Your existing boiler and btu's per sq ft is 90. Way too much.
Proper boiler sizing is your greatest savings is a properly sized boiler.
 
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