Help Decipher Contract Quote for Buderas Boiler


Old 04-30-12, 09:35 PM
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Help Decipher Contract Quote for Buderas Boiler

Hi - I am hoping I can find some assistance here, thanks in advance. We are looking into converting our oil-fed boiler (35+ year old Weil Mc) to gas with a Buderas boiler. I am still reasearching how Buderas works exactly, but here is what our contractor quoted (see below). 1) I cannot tell from the quote, what the burner is - is that important? 2)We have an old "leaky" house - 1928 - is there something we should consider or think twice about with getting a supper efficient system like this? 3) I've learned from this board, to do the heat calculation on what we need and will do this to confirm. I know our house is over radiated w/ baseboard, but we don't plan on removing it. Is there any website that folks recommend for preferred instructions on doing heat calcs, for old houses? 4) If folks are willing / knowledgeable, is there anything in this quote that we should ask for specifics on? We are having a 3rd zone added for future baseboard to be run in a finished off basement.

Thanks in advance.

Install new GB142/30 Buderus natural gas 96%AFUE boiler.
Install 2 circulators Taco 007 with isolation and purge valves for heating
Install 1 circulator Taco 007 for new SSU-45 Superstor, (boiler lines are one inch copper as per manufacturer instructions)

Install Taco control board (3 zone)with priority control(superstor)(extra zone for future)(superstor wired directly to boiler)
Installation includes new Spiro-vent, expansion tank, relief valves, pressure reducing valve, backflow preventor, vacuum breaker, shut-off valves.(1/4 turn)
Includes outdoor reset (outdoor temp. control)
Includes all boiler wiring and piping.

Install new gas line from meter bar to new boiler location .Gas line large enough to add future gas stove,dryer,and insert.
Removal of old boiler included.
Removal of old fuel tank
Single vent (concentric)
Hard wired smoke and carbon monoxide detector
One year warranty on parts and labor.
Includes permits
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Old 05-01-12, 01:04 AM
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Why didn't the proposed contractor do a heat loss calculation? It shouldn't be left to the customer to do. Especially when we're talking about a higher efficiency (i.e., higher cost) unit.

You didn't get into much detail about your home. How "leaky" is it? How much insulation does it have? How old are the windows? Has it ever been re-sided (and possibly a layer of exterior insulation added)?

As far as I know, some over-radiation is not necessarily a bad thing when it comes to modulating-condensing boilers like the proposed Bodurus, which operate at lower temps.

Regarding the specifics of the installation proposal, I'll leave that to the pros to comment on.
Old 05-01-12, 05:46 AM
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Random thoughts

Make sure the installer can test for proper efficiency when done. I learned that the hard way when my installer did not own the equipment.

I'd ask for valves and fittings made in USA. I also learned that the hard way when my installer used the cheapest overseas fittings available. I'd also get more specs on the components that are being used to insure you're not getting low end stuff.

There's no mention of who wires the new system, is it the plumber or an electrician and does that calls for a permit as well? Specs on that are vague. Around here, a permit from the fire department is also required to remove even an indoor oil tank.

In Massachusetts, I believe you need detectors installed on every level. Only the basement needs to be hard wired.

Also in Massachusetts, there's a hefty rebate on the system and ODR. You might have to have a free energy audit done to be eligible.

Specify the type of ODR you want.

Also, have them check the gas pressure so you know what to expect... here it found to be below specs and it was tested only after the system was installed.

And make sure it's installed according to the manual. I'm posting all this from experience. For instance, here the circulators were pumping the wrong direction and were mounted on the wrong side of the boiler. The City inspectors won't check for that type of thing.

Also, since you don't receive messages, google "Modulating is it efficient?" for help deciding if you want a super efficient system or a conventional slightly less efficient boiler.

I'd also strongly suggest buttoning up your leaky house. As an example, we had cellulose blown into our 1870's place in MA and fuel use dropped about 1/3, and it's incredibly more comfortable.

Last edited by TBurr; 05-01-12 at 06:32 AM.
Old 05-01-12, 07:08 AM
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Regarding the house - built in 1928, in MA. We don't believe there is any insulation in our exterior walls. A bathroom that we rennovated, created from an old exterior entryway off kitchen, was ripped down to studs. No insulation there. It was so cold, children refused to use it. Now, it is insulated, and easily the warmest room in house. We replaced old wood windows and storms with Harvey double insulated in 2009. Weight pockets were insulated, but again, we did not have insulation blown in / should have at that time. Will probably blow in insulation when house is painted in next two years and have confirmed all knob and tube is gone. Walk-up attic has the pink-stuff insulation under floor boards. Roof is slate.

Had the MA MassEnergy people out (pre-req to rebate) and have Columbia Gas, who gives a monetary rebate after install. They don't supply / lease equipment or deal w/ contractors.

Plumber works with an electrician, and a separate guy licensed to remove / dispose of old tank. Plumber will pull permit. Electrician will wire the system and the required hardwire of the radon / smoke alarm only in basement.

Re: Heat Calc - when contractor was here to give quote, I can't remember if he did a proper heat calculation (measured rooms). I will ask him, but also thought I would do it too, as a double check and discuss before he purchases equip. We have NOT signed a contract / won't do that until we are sure the gas line is installed.

Re: ODR - did not know what stood for / googled and understand it is the outdoor reset. BTW, found ODR versus night setback thermostats which was helpful. I'm still paniced about giving up old habits / cranking night setback, or wanting immediate call for more heat. If anyone has a link w/ more info on intelligent thermostats / would be appreciated. I need to do more research.
Old 05-03-12, 07:34 PM
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The GB142 has a built in ODR control. I think Buderus offers room sensors that interface with the boiler control so it gets info about current room temperature not just outdoor temperature. That can allow you to have deeper night setbacks with acceptable morning recovery. That's called "indoor feedback".

THE first thing to do, even before a modcon boiler, is to get a real heat loss using a blower door test and thermal IR imagery. Best couple hundred bucks you can spend on your house. Especially old ones. Can cut heat loss by half. Then you are looking at smaller modcon boiler, like the /24 instead of the /30 Buderus. Smaller is cheaper first cost, will cycle less, and generally be happier.

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