New MPO installation - FINALLY!

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  #1  
Old 08-22-12, 02:15 PM
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New MPO installation - FINALLY!

I just got it unpacked, nothing really to show yet but figured I would start a new thread now anyway.

I'm doing nothing fancy on this install, just a cut and paste, the old system was fine the way it was... no buffer tank, no zones, nada...

I do have a question for rbeck though if he's reading:

Since the MPO I've got is a 5" flue pipe I assume that I can transition to 6" at the ceiling box for the chimney? Just slap a reducer in there and come down with 5" to the boiler?
 
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Old 08-23-12, 09:04 AM
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Trooper's MPO

I'll be watching this thread with interest. I'm also thinking about the MPO!
Good luck-

Steve
 
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Old 08-23-12, 12:08 PM
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Yes, just reduce as close to chimney as possible.
 
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Old 08-23-12, 04:50 PM
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Thanks RB...

I may have been a bit premature starting the thread because after the old boiler is out of the way I have some termite damage to repair in the wall behind it... I expect that by Sunday the old boiler will be out and new studs in the wall. Drywall after that, then I start the install.

I came up with this brilliant idea (me? naaah) of putting 1/2" plywood UNDER the drywall so I could put my anchors and struts and stuff wherever I want without having to line the stuff up on a stud or use drywall anchors... should be good.

By the way, I should mention that the on-line supplier I was 'dissing' a while back was given a second chance and they did not disappoint me! The boiler arrived in perfect condition, and ON TIME! The trucking firm they use ( JP Express ) is VERY good. Of course, they didn't have to go far, their terminal is only about 25 miles from here, but still...
 
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Old 08-28-12, 04:50 PM
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Come on mit the pix a'ready.
 
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Old 08-29-12, 04:14 PM
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You wanna see pix of the drywall before it's mudded? really? just kiddin... cuz that's how far I've got. There was a LOT of termite damage on that garage wall, all the way up to the ceiling joists. Surprised it didn't fall down!

Goin' out right now to throw some mud boss!
 

Last edited by NJT; 10-03-12 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 08-29-12, 04:33 PM
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You wanna see pix of the drywall before it's mudded? really? just kiddin... cuz that's how far I've got. There was a LOT of termite damage on that garage wall, all the way up to the ceiling joists.
Yeah, come on Troop, that should of been posted with pics in the forums.

What did you do to get rid of them? (Bug forum)
Are you placing the studs properly? ( Carpentry)
Is the home structurally sound? ( Structural Area)
Screws or nails in the sheet rock?(Carpentry)


What about the permit.....? LOL...


Probably got termites from digging those big holes around your home.... You disturbed the termites home so they are paying you back....


Geez!!!!!!

 
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Old 08-29-12, 05:10 PM
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Probably got termites from digging those big holes around your home.... You disturbed the termites home so they are paying you back....
He probably dug out all that good termite poison they don't you use anymore.
 
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Old 08-29-12, 05:16 PM
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He probably dug out all that good termite poison


He was using No. 2 heating oil if you remember droo.
 
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Old 08-30-12, 04:02 PM
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Hahahahahahah. :d


.........................................
 
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Old 08-30-12, 07:30 PM
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I shoulda known there was an oil leak when the termites started dying a few years ago!

Actually, they have been gone for about 25 years, I just couldn't get to that part of the wall cuz the boiler and piping was in the way.
 
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Old 08-31-12, 12:35 AM
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Are you going to replace that "test-run" switch hanging by its wires?

Slightly off-topic. When I was a kid we had an above-ground fuel oil tank next to the house. While it didn't really leak, it did have a fitting (or three) that weeped enough so that it was always wet with oil. It obviously dripped to the ground and where it did was the most lush green grass any golf course could ever desire. This was number one fuel oil, not quite kerosene but definitely "lighter" than number two, or diesel fuel. So much for the oil killing the grass.
 
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Old 09-01-12, 04:55 PM
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Are you going to replace that "test-run" switch hanging by its wires?
LOL! That's actually been gone for quite a while... and there won't be one on the new system (at least not yet!)

You sure that was an oil tank and not a holding tank for the septic Furd?

OK, there's a pic! I got the MPO moved into place today and planning out how I'm gonna do stuff.

Earlier I had asked about increasing the 5" on the MPO up to the 6" for the chimney. Wellllll... it occurred to me that just last year I bought and installed a 6" OVD on the old boiler. I would really like to use it on the new boiler. So, how about if I did this:



By the way, I'm probably going to rotate the pipe with the baro damper on it 90 CCW so the damper faces toward the camera.

Anybody see any problem with this before I continue and 'put the screws to it' ?

Here she is, in place. I'm planning on putting a sheet metal 'skirt' around the bottom to keep the vermin in the garage from tunneling up into the insulation.

Xiphias, take note... look at that lovely object on top of the expansion tank in the corner!



 
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Old 09-01-12, 05:39 PM
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the sheet metal skirt/doylee at the base is a great idea.

the black duct work, is that a different material, or is just painted sheet metal?

how heavy is that MPO?
 
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Old 09-01-12, 05:58 PM
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The black pipe is actually 'stove pipe' for a wood stove. I've got a 'connection' over at the local wood stove store and get good prices on it. It's just 24 ga snap lock pipe painted black to make pretty for use indoors. Finding 5" galvanized locally is a bit of a challenge (meaning it's made of unobtainium around here!)

I got that stainless tee for FREE! It was in the 'junk' pile outside the store in the back. It was used, but in perfect shape.

The MPO in this size is about 450 LB. The engineers at Burnham have cast into the iron on the bottom two 'loops' that accept pieces of 1" sched 40 steel pipe. You get two 8' lengths, slide them through, put blocks under one side, lift the other and slide out the shipping pallet. Set down the one end, lift the other end pull out the blocks, set it down and slide out the pipes. Easy as pie! (or was that cake?) I moved this by myself. ( no stairs! )
 

Last edited by NJT; 09-01-12 at 07:20 PM.
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Old 09-01-12, 07:11 PM
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the pipe trick is slick~
this is gas, right?
 
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Old 09-01-12, 07:20 PM
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No, oil, the burner is not mounted yet.
 
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Old 09-01-12, 08:56 PM
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Instead of those concrete bricks I would prefer a full size concrete "housekeeping" pad. I don't know how you are planning on affixing the sheet metal to the floor but be certain to either make it easily removable or place it far enough away from the boiler jacket to allow for easily removing the jacket.
 
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Old 09-01-12, 10:20 PM
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I thought about that full size pad... then the 'cheap' in me came out. At 35 each for the bricks, it was too hard for me to pass up. They are glued to the floor. I guess I could form around them and pour some 'crete in if you think it's important enough.

I wasn't planning on attaching the skirt to the floor, I was gonna use sheet metal screws into the jacket. I checked and it's all clear around the bottom lip of the jacket. An alternate idea was to make the skirt all one piece and fold it around the bottom and secure it to itself where the ends meet. That way no holes in the new boiler.

I can't see any reason to ever have to remove the jacket. All cleaning is done externally by opening the burner door and removing the two rectangular plates to either side of the flue outlet at the rear. Honestly, the ease of cleaning this boiler is what sold me on it. It is absolutely my most hated maintenance job in the whole world. At least it WAS with the Vaillant. What a royal PITA that thing was to clean!
 
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Old 09-02-12, 06:31 AM
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you mean a PITA as in cleaning something like this every 2 months?
 
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Old 09-02-12, 07:51 AM
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No... that actually doesn't look too hard to do. But why every two months? Looks like it's not burning too well... lotta soot, and some condensate 'rocks'.

The old boiler had a very small burner opening and close to the floor. Getting in there to clean the combustion chamber has one getting into some very un-natural 'poses'. Plus, you couldn't actually SEE what you were doing, the hole was too small to get a brush, an arm, AND an eye inside.

And that damn hole got smaller and closer to the ground every year!

In order to clean the flue passes, one has to remove the top jacket and release these stupid metal 'clips' that held 10 plates to the top of the boiler. Brushing them out was pretty easy, but again, you couldn't see anything. If the flue pass got plugged you were in for a world of trouble trying to get the saw down inside.

The heat exchanger required removal of the flue pipe and the front jacket, which required removing the aquastat! Then there was a plate behind that which needed to come off... and it was always a challenge to get that sealed properly.

The MPO entire front door swings open to expose both the combustion chamber AND the heat exchanger passes. Those two small plates on the rear come off. Then, a few passes with the brush straight through, a quick brush down of the chamber, vacuum and done. All from a standing position (well, one might have to kneel for that, but it's a far cry from standing on one's head!).
 
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Old 09-02-12, 10:16 AM
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Troop, why the blocks under the boiler?

Why pour concrete around them? You could just nestle more of those blocks together like it was a small patio.
 
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Old 09-02-12, 10:25 AM
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Troop, I am wondering was your old boiler there? Where is all the piping?

I assume you decided that was the best location?
 
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Old 09-02-12, 11:16 AM
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@droo - it's possible for water to pool along that wall in the event somebody (me) does something stupid... not going to elaborate on that! and the water heater, well plumbing, water softener, washing machine, etc is all in the vicinity.

I doubt I'll do anything more with the blocks, they're glued down real good.

@lawrosa - old boiler was to the left of where new is, pushed into the corner. The chimney was directly above it so the flue pipe had to come out, over, and up, and I didn't like the fact that if there was any condensate or stuff dripping for any reason that it would drip on the boiler.

So, I decided to move the new over a few feet and allow a straight shot up into the chim...

I'm not 100% happy with the new location, but the alternative was to pull down the chim, patch the roof hole, and reinstall further to the left.

Do you have 'misgivings' about the location? Perhaps feared for the windows behind it? They don't open... I may do something different with the curtains, that bothers me a bit, but they are further than they appear to be in the pics.
 
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Old 09-02-12, 11:19 AM
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I too like just the block down each side to eliminate rust on the bottom of the boiler. Increased air flow is always good.
Don't you want that door to swing to the left or are my eyes deceiving me?
 
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Old 09-02-12, 11:22 AM
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Yes, door swings to left, would be no room to open otherwise!

What's your take on the question about the flue piping in post #13?

Can I switch to 6" at that point so I can use the OVD I already have?
 
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Old 09-02-12, 01:15 PM
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My issue is the location, but just my opinion.

Do not install boiler where gasoline or other
flammable vapors or liquids, or sources of
hydrocarbons (i.e. bleaches, fabric softeners,
etc.) are used or stored.


I have seen fumes from laundry areas do crazy stuff to burners and flue passages. Heavy white coatings on everything.

Are you taking air from outside?

I would probably side vent with the air intake kit if it were myself. Position the boiler better and put the required lally columns in.

That is your garage correct?

Just my 2 cents.


Added manual here for others to take a look see.

http://www.usboiler.net/products/boi...ets/manual.pdf
 
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Old 09-02-12, 01:33 PM
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Trooper, could you please tell us how many manhours you use for the removal and installation?
 
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Old 09-02-12, 05:27 PM
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Mike, I call it the garage, but the room it's going in is actually an enclosed unheated 'breezeway' between the parking area and the house proper. I don't need any protective columns unless I come home drunk one night and manage to get going fast enough to crash through two walls. It's very old (and poor) construction and VERY leaky as far as air goes.

In the 25 years I've been here there was no issue at all with dryer lint or chemicals (bleach, etc, which we rarely use anyway.

I always have the option of adding outside air boot if it becomes a problem.

The thing is, I'm limited by the location of the chimney. I really don't have much choice at this point without relocating the chimney. The only other choice I have in locating the boiler would be to move it to the left, back where the old boiler was, and run the flue pipe down, over, down, over, etc... I want that straight shot up into the chimney. So basically, this is really the only place I can install the boiler. Also, where the unit is now, I have full access to front and back for any service needs. No more standing on my head to work on it.

Gilmorrie, I'm not sure what the point is of keeping track of the time? I'm not on the clock so I'm taking my sweet azz time doing this.

I ended up ripping out ALL the piping from the house to the boiler. I know I said I was going to do a quick cut and paste, but when I thought about it, it seemed to be easier to start with a fresh slate.
 

Last edited by NJT; 09-03-12 at 08:15 AM.
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Old 09-04-12, 11:13 AM
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You can reduce the vent pipe size by i pipe diameter if the vent is less than 12". Most inspectore like to see the reduction right at the chimney base but you don't habe a chimney base so I see no problem here.
 
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Old 09-04-12, 02:45 PM
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Thanks RB...

I'll be getting the rest of the supplies that I need tomorrow so I should be all done by Sunday.
 
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Old 09-05-12, 08:54 PM
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Twisting black pipe is no picnic! I plumb wore my azz out after only about 12 connections... much respect to you guys who do this day in day out!

I'm transitioning to copper ... I can't twist no more!
 
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Old 09-08-12, 02:31 PM
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I still haven't melted any solder... but I got a bunch of stuff done and ready to go.

Speak now or forever hold your peace if you see something wrong with the setup so far!

I know I probably won't need the bypass, but I had the parts 'in stock', so why not?



Here's the 'butt side'



And this is where the air sep, exp tank, reducing valve, backflow, and supply and return mani's are gonna go. Those Webstones are just sitting there, not the final position...



OK, break time is over, back to work!
 
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Old 09-08-12, 05:24 PM
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Looks good to me. What kind of valves are those I see on the bypass?

Also, what do you have planned for the (capped) tee on the supply?
 
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Old 09-08-12, 06:55 PM
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What kind of valves are those I see on the bypass?
New Old Stock - Nibco 1" globe valves. I've been saving them for this project for about 20 years! and I'm not kidding!

Did I ever mention that I inherited my FIL's stockroom when he retired from P&H ?

planned for the (capped) tee on the supply?
Not capped. That short stub of pipe is just stuck in there as a 'place holder'. Looks like it's capped because the end is tinned (removed from a scrap fitting). It's not there anymore, I've got the SpiroVent mounted under that shelf, the pipe now runs up to that.

I'm quittin' for the night, I been at it constant for 12 hours now!

I'll post a few more pics tomorrow after I get the circ mounted.

None of this is soldered yet... well, there are a few joints that are... so just think, when this is all done, I get to pull it all apart again, clean and flux every joint, and solder it all up. Where did my helper get off too when I need her the most?
 
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Old 09-08-12, 06:57 PM
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Oh... I wanted to mention this...

Take a look at the 'bell hangers' behind the pipes. See those white things? 1" PVC pipe caps... they make great standoffs! I just hope they don't get hot enough to soften up!

Also, if you missed it, there are aluminum sheets on the walls behind all the piping. I found these dumpster diving one day about 10 years ago. They were on the wall behind the old boiler too. I thought that they would make dandy heat reflectors since that room is unheated except for what the boiler and piping throws off. They look pretty cool too. What's most amazing to me is that I didn't even have to cut them! They were the exact size I needed, right outta the dumpster!
 

Last edited by NJT; 10-03-12 at 04:10 PM.
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Old 09-08-12, 07:04 PM
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it's nice to have easy access to the piping - allows for clean & straight lines, easy to work on, well lit area.

looking good.
 
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Old 09-08-12, 07:09 PM
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You said it Thor! I'm spending more time planning than I'm spending doing! But it will be worth it when it's all done.

One more thing ... did I ever mention how cheap I am? I can squeeze a $5 bill so hard it would make Abraham Lincoln cry!

That window was never trimmed out. When I uncrated the boiler, I got to looking at the 1x3 that they made the box out of. That window trim is the crate the boiler came in!

Anybody hear a bird? CHEEP CHEEP CHEAP ! Yep, that's me!
 
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Old 09-08-12, 07:26 PM
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i noticed the window casing trim, before & after, you can see the fingerjointing on the lower piece.
im cheap too, also used the lumber from the pallets and packaging

it's not going to get cold tomorrow, right? this allows for the time needed to plan out a great install
"a ruski doesn't take a dump without a plan, son"
 
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Old 09-08-12, 08:10 PM
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Those globe valves sure waited around a long time before being put to service. Must feel good to finally use them.

Obviously your new MPO isn't going to heat up the room like your old boiler, so you're going to need those aluminum heat reflectors more than ever. (One man's junk is another man's treasure...)
 
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