Help. piping water feed

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Old 09-01-12, 05:22 AM
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Help. piping water feed

I replaced a boiler and my problem is the new presure reducing valve is either bad or something else going on.

Question, By connnecting the water feed on the retun and having the exspansion tank connected at the top of the weil mcclain top port near the supply port be ok? would be the prsure problem or is it simply the failed valve?
I allways use a air scope and connect the feed just above it but not in this case.
allso I see the homeowner installed a well exspansion tank and that it hold like 25 psi. I thoug h they should be like a 12 to 15 psi type.

Just want make sure that the piping is ok and not the cause before.
Any thoughts on this .
Thanks
CJ
 
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Old 09-01-12, 06:56 AM
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what's happening? is the relief valve opening or the system not filling with water?

usually the expansion tank is piped in just below the air scoop and the water feed is tee'd in there as well, with the back-flow preventer just before the pressure reducer valve.

i just installed my boiler and the water supply is on the return side (the old installation was like that) and don't have any problems right now. if it does become problematic, then i will repipe to supply side.

15 psi max
i know this is elementary, but did you bleed air from your zones?
 
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Old 09-01-12, 06:04 PM
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I went back today and replaced the pressure reducing valve and the expansion tank. I found that the pressure was still inching its way 20 plus psi. I have not bleed out the in tire system of air but will do so. Wtf. Can air in the zones cause a lot of pressure increase, I was told to check the new tanks pressure because it could be problem.
 
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Old 09-01-12, 06:33 PM
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the air can prevent proper water flow & possibly contribute to overpressurizing the system
 
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Old 09-01-12, 06:38 PM
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I see the homeowner installed a well exspansion tank and that it hold like 25 psi.
THIS is your problem! The water in the heating system, provided all air has been removed, must have a place to expand when heated. This place is the expansion tank. If the expansion tank bladder has an initial pressure of 25 psi then it can contain NONE of the expanding water in the heating system UNTIL the heating system pressure rises above this initial pressure.

Replace the expansion tank with a model made for heating systems and set the bladder pressure to the same as the pressure reducing valve output.
 
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Old 09-01-12, 06:50 PM
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Air in the system won't cause over-pressure. If anything, it will act as a little bit of extra expansion space and keep the pressure from rising as fast.

Expansion tank - The air pressure in the expansion tank is to be set the same as the COLD fill pressure of the system... 12 - 15 PSI. You can NOT check the air charge on the expansion tank if there is ANY pressure on the system. You will not get an accurate reading or setting. You MUST drop the boiler pressure to zero first.

Have you read these two 'sticky' notes? They may both have helpful information for you.

http://www.doityourself.com/forum/bo...sion-tank.html

http://www.doityourself.com/forum/bo...ure-gauge.html

Unless the gauge is brand new (and even then I still would verify it) do NOT trust the pressure gauge! They are evil lying creations.

One way to narrow down where the over pressure is coming from is as follows:

Turn off the boiler and let it cool all the way down to room temp.

Check pressure. If it is high, CLOSE the water feed valve to the boiler and open a boiler drain to let a little bit of water out until the pressure is 12 PSI on a KNOWN GOOD gauge. Leave the water feed valve CLOSED and fire the boiler. Let it run for a day or two while periodically monitoring the gauge.

If the pressure stays in control, then it's clear what the problem is... the pressure reducing valve.

Whenever a new reducing valve is installed, it is imperative that the line feeding the boiler be FLUSHED OUT with a forceful flow of water for several minutes. This means connecting a hose and running the water through. Since very little water passes through that line normally, there almost always is a buildup of debris that collects over the years. If this debris gets into the new valve, it's toast. I feel that it is a good idea to install a wye strainer on that line just ahead of the pressure reducing valve.

The pic is really crappy... I can't see much in it... but, it is possible that if the water feed to the system is in the wrong place it can sometimes cause a pressure creep. I'm not going to explain it all right now, but it is possible... check the other stuff first.
 
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Old 09-02-12, 06:38 AM
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have another question that maybe you can answer on the controls.

Im gonna had a 40 va tformer to control the 3 honeywell zones motor/t-stat side.

I have fuel smart hydro stat model 3250 ( limit control,lwco,thermal targeting)
and my primary control T-T terminals.

am i simply running wire from my end switches to the t terminal of the primary and the 3250 control in series? So when any end switch closes it complets a circuit through both controls?


Allso I have a radiant panel control. this has a ZC and ZR terminals. With no schematic Do i run this to possibly the ZC and ZR of my 3250?

Befor I work on the controls I jumpered out the the primary control so to test fire the burner and adjustments. It ran for 10 min fine. But now I get relay chatter in the primary control. WTF. Why all of a sudden this is happening.
I did a voltage check on the primary and was getting 110 volts output to feed the motor. was told the primary is good but something causeing back feed. HMMM
 
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Old 09-02-12, 07:45 AM
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need more info:
how many circulator pumps do you have?
what make is the radiant control panel?


zc/zr in hydrolevel would connect to end switch from a relay
t-t in hydroleve would connect to thermostat(s)
 
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Old 09-02-12, 09:30 AM
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am i simply running wire from my end switches to the t terminal of the primary and the 3250 control in series? So when any end switch closes it complets a circuit through both controls?
Uhhhh... NO! Absolutely do NOT do that! You will fry either one or both of the controls.

You do need to tell us more.

Tell us the make/model of ALL controls, which primary, radiant control, everything... don't hold back because we need to know exactly what you are working with there if we are to help properly.
 
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Old 09-02-12, 07:21 PM
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I have a becket burner controlled by a Beckett. Genisys 120v replaces a R7184P. Pre and post time.

The aqua stat is a hydrostatic model 3250 lwco,limit,thermal targeting
The boiler has 3 honey well zone vales 2 for basebrd ,1 for storage tank. Motors with the standard end switches.

Radiant panel SP-83P. Controlling 3 t-stats And 3 circulaters

The Homeownerstated that a transformer controlled the original older Honeywell zones and the radiant panel was separate. But some co came and Rewied everything off the radiant panel some how and he was having intermittent problems when wired that way.
 

Last edited by coolmen; 09-02-12 at 07:35 PM. Reason: Add words
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Old 09-02-12, 08:02 PM
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Took some doing... but I found the installation instructions for the SP-83P...

http://www.azeltec.com/images/ilinkinstruction.pdf

This looks like a Taco design, or a rip-off of same.

Let me see if I've got this straight, please correct me if wrong:

1. The home has 2 zones of high temp baseboard and these are controlled by the Honeywell zone valves.

2. There is an indirect water heater also controlled by a Honeywell zone valve.

There must be a pump for these zones, what is it wired to?

3. There are 3 radiant heat zones, each with it's own pump.

Is that all correct so far?
 
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Old 09-02-12, 08:05 PM
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In general, the T T terminals on the oil burner are JUMPERED.

The oil burner itself is controlled by the AQUASTAT ... in this case, the 3250.

Here is the I&O for the 3250:

http://www.hydrolevel.com/pages/pdf_...structions.pdf
 
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Old 09-02-12, 08:30 PM
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You are correct and the pump is controlled by the 3250. When I jumped out the tr/tw on the 3250, the circ operated.
 
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Old 09-03-12, 01:10 PM
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I found that the a troll tank has failed and is what caused the build up of pressure.
Also I found that sitting down and reading all materials so to get an understanding of the controls has made it pretty easy to wire .
Thanks for your help and input on helping me solve this problem.
 
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Old 09-04-12, 12:06 PM
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I have found that when the feed valve is piped behind the circulator and the circulator is pumping toward the expansion tank connection the pressure will creep up. Every time the pump starts the inlet pressure drops and the PRV will add a little water. The pressure will usually balance out between 18 and 20 psi cold.
 
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Old 09-04-12, 08:59 PM
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I went and replace the defective indirect tank and fired her up. all excited then 10 min later she stopped working . Solenoid valve not working. I checked for voltage on the. Primarys. L2 and valve terminals and read nothing. What should the voltage read 24v ?
 
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