new boiler, one fuel line now

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Old 10-23-12, 09:08 PM
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new boiler, one fuel line now

My in-laws just had a new oil-fired boiler professionally installed in their residence, a replacement for an old one in bad shape that needed replacing. The old one had two fuel lines connected between the fuel pump and the oil tank outside, one for supply and one for return. The new installation has only one line, with a Tigerloop installed. My in-laws are notorius for letting their fuel tank run out of oil, which of course shuts of the boiler, before they purchase more oil. With the old two-line system, when they would run of fuel like described was always just a matter of getting more fuel into the tank and then restarting the boiler, no having to purge/bleed the line of air. Just get more fuel and hit reset button and it would restart. So, knowing they won't change their habit of letting themselves run of fuel, I'm curious about whether with the new one-line setup with the Tigerloop, should it still be a matter of just getting more fuel into the tank and restarting like before, or will now there be an additional step involving having to bleed air from the fuel line to get things the running again. I hope not. Thanks for any input/comment.
 
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Old 10-24-12, 06:11 AM
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The new setup will work better than the old for several reasons: 1) only the fuel that will be burned immediately will go through the filter, thus greatly prolonging intervals between filter changes. 2) the oil has a chance to warm up a bit before going through the burner. This results in cleaner starts and runs. 3) there's no return line that could conceivably develop a leak and oil be lost without being noticed. If the lines are fully visible it's not such a big deal but in a situation with buried lines quite a bit of oil could be lost before being noticed.

If, or when, they run out of oil, the restart process is the same as before - push the reset button.
 
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Old 10-24-12, 09:20 AM
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Good. Thanks! By the way, I seem to recall being told that running all the way out of fuel often as they do is "hard on the pump" and may cause excessive wear and tear on it, necessitating pump replacement when otherwise the pump would/should last and last. Comment?
 
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Old 10-24-12, 03:36 PM
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Hopefully it's as easy as that...

With the tiger loop, you still have the pump set up as a 2 pipe, but only as far as the tiger loop. If they run it out and the tiger loop is empty, it could take several pushes of the reset button to get the thing primed again.

You know that the solution is for a good son-in-law to keep tabs on their oil and make sure they don't run out. Make the call yourself if you have to!

Yes, running a pump out of oil is not good for it. Besides being the fuel, the oil is also just that to the pump, OIL, and it does lubricate the moving parts of the pump. Set them up on an automatic delivery plan if you have to.
 
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Old 10-24-12, 04:53 PM
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Well what I mean I guess is that with the Tigerloop there's now only one line coming in from the fuel tank (now no second "return" line going back out). Here's a picture, the one copper line coming in from the tank outside: http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/b...ps449a4656.jpg
I'll try (again and probably in vain) to convince them not to be letting themselves run of fuel all the time. The main problem is they're always running of out money, to buy the fuel. But when they do buy the fuel after running all the way out, I can come over and push the reset button for them, several pushes I suppose now if necessary (sigh), being the good son-in-law that I am. They can't get set up on an automatic delivery plan because they don't pay their bills on time. So I can push the reset button for them, but I know I can't keep them from running out of money or from not paying their bills on time.

" Gimmee (money for) fuel! Gimmee FIRE! Gimmee that which I desire (new fuel pump)! "
 
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Old 10-24-12, 05:37 PM
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now only one line coming in from the fuel tank (now no second "return" line going back out)
Right... that's the way all TigerLoop are set up.

As far as the BURNER itself knows, it is still set up for 2 pipe. There is constant recirculation of the fuel that is in the TigerLoop upper chamber. So there must be fuel in that chamber in order for the burner to fire.

On a runout, that chamber will empty itself. It may take some time for the fuel from the tank to make it's way from the tank to the TigerLoop. Once you get fuel into the TL, the burner should fire up.

How far is the tank from the burner? Is it above the level of the burner so that gravity will help?

Does the (single) supply line from the tank feed off the BOTTOM of the tank?

Being in AK, do you have problems with cold oil? Maybe that's why the TL was added to the system? Since there is no longer constant recirc flow between the burner and the tank, the oil comes in MUCH more slowly, giving it time to warm up before entering the burner. With constant recirc, the burner is always being fed cold oil. Cold oil does NOT give good combustion!

There is usually enough residual oil left in the pump to keep it lubed, but still, it's not good for it.

I understand about money!
 
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Old 10-24-12, 06:06 PM
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The tank is not far from the burner. It's located outside, just behind the wall of the boiler location, probably only about 4 feet away. The tank is actually about at the same level of the burner, maybe a little higher but not much. The (single) supply line from the tank does feed off the bottom of the tank, well not all the way to the bottom but probably a few inches up from it anway.
I'm in SE AK where it doesn't get as frigid in the winter as up north, although down to 5 or 10 degrees F is not uncommon, where there can definitely be issues with cold oil. So the second advantage of the new fuel line setup as mentioned by heatpro (this thread) "the oil has a chance to warm up a bit before going through the burner" should be good and be helpful in that regard.
 
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Old 02-26-13, 02:27 AM
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Sgull,
How has it all worked out? I'm considering a tigerloop (since all the cool kids like NJThave one). Actually reading/learning and wondering if that constant flow is part of the reason my filter had so much crap in it as I recirculate so much oil to my inground tank with 2 line setup.

So far I only ran out once which let me know that supply is 8" off bottom of tank (new house learning curve). Added some fuel and it definitely reprimed very quickly.

Is the second return line still there? I'm thinking if it's often an issue than a "T" or 2 and some ball valves and you can make your own bypass. Flip them to reprime and then switch back once it fires up.
 
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Old 02-26-13, 09:26 AM
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sequoiasoon,
As I recall, the previous return line (between the tank and the pump), now not necessary with the TigerLoop installation, has since been removed, if that's what you're asking. As heatpro described in this thread (post #2), filter change intervals should be longer with the TigerLoop setup. With the two-line setup I'd say it's reasonable to assume that's part of the reason your filter had so much crap in it as you say, depending of course on other factors too. I'm no expert but it seems to me 8" is rather an excessive distance to have your supply line from the bottom of the tank. In regard to how it's all worked out so far since the new boiler install with the TigerLoop (just over five months ago now), it has gone fine. The first time they ran their tank out of fuel, (and then got more) it took me one time pressing the reset button to get it going again. I showed them what button to press for future run-outs and they must've learned because I haven't had to go press the button again for them since. Ah, those were the days though.
 
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Old 02-26-13, 12:19 PM
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Is the second return line still there? I'm thinking if it's often an issue than a "T" or 2 and some ball valves and you can make your own bypass. Flip them to reprime and then switch back once it fires up.
Unfortunately it is not that easy. To convert from a two-pipe system to a one-pipe it is necessary to install or remove (depending upon which way you are changing) a "bypass" plug internal to the fuel pump.
 
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Old 02-26-13, 02:54 PM
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"Unfortunately it is not that easy. To convert from a two-pipe system to a one-pipe it is necessary to install or remove (depending upon which way you are changing) a "bypass" plug internal to the fuel pump"

From reading the information the Tiger loop operates as a 2 line system. I figured instead of returning to TL, with the couple valves it would send back to tank. Would that provide more lift/suction/flow etc.? If return line is gone, the point is mute anyway.
 
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