New t-stats .. optional "system type" settings
#1
Member
Thread Starter
New t-stats .. optional "system type" settings
I recently picked up 6 UPM THM303a thermostats on ebay for our in-floor heating.
(neat little units that also have Humidity readings (and can control a humidifier)..
One of the option settings on them is "System Type", that controls the "Cycles per hour".
Hydronic Heat / Condensing Gas .. 2 cycles
Commercial Unit .. 3 cycles
Gas or Oil Forced Air .. 5 cycles
Electric Heat .. 7 cycles
Also a 'disabled' mode that I assume uses however many cycles per hour is required to maintain +/- 1deg ?
Ive never had a stat with this setting.. other than wear and tear on the zone valves, is there any advantage to various settings ??
(neat little units that also have Humidity readings (and can control a humidifier)..
One of the option settings on them is "System Type", that controls the "Cycles per hour".
Hydronic Heat / Condensing Gas .. 2 cycles
Commercial Unit .. 3 cycles
Gas or Oil Forced Air .. 5 cycles
Electric Heat .. 7 cycles
Also a 'disabled' mode that I assume uses however many cycles per hour is required to maintain +/- 1deg ?
Ive never had a stat with this setting.. other than wear and tear on the zone valves, is there any advantage to various settings ??
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#3
Member
Thread Starter
So the stat has to overshoot the temp by some calculated amount.. do these stats 'learn' to some extent ? Nothing said on the package or manual bragging about smarts..
#4
do these stats 'learn' to some extent ? Nothing said on the package or manual bragging about smarts..
I arrived at this conclusion after observing my old system operation after hooking up the circulator 'post purge' circuit. It did seem to know that more heat would be coming 'after the fact' and always cut off the heat call before the room reached temperature. (which it did always reach temperature with the pump purging the heat from the boiler)
BUT then, neither does this thermostat have a 'cycles per hour' setting.
[ afterthought: It probably DOES have a CPH setting, but it's not apparent, at least they don't call it that and spell it out. I think that almost all digitals DO have a 'system type' setting. This setting probably carries a CPH setting with it but not specifically spelled out in the manual or on the setup screens. ]
Last edited by NJT; 11-18-12 at 04:19 PM.
#5
Honeywell says this about cycle rate:
Q: What is a cycle rate?
A: Every heating system type will deliver heat to the house at a slightly different rate. Some thermostats provide you with the flexibility to set the cycle rate adjustment to match your specific heating system, whether it is gas or oil forced air, high efficiency forced air, electric forced air, or baseboard hot water.
A cycle rate is the ideal number of times a heating system will run, in an hour, to maintain temperature within one degree. For instance, gas or oil forced air systems have a recommended cycle rate of 6. With a cycle rate of 6, the heating system, at a 50% load, will cycle 6 times per hour. This breaks down to about 5 minutes on and 5 minutes off. Again, the actual on and off time of the heating system will vary as the load on the heating system varies.
A: Every heating system type will deliver heat to the house at a slightly different rate. Some thermostats provide you with the flexibility to set the cycle rate adjustment to match your specific heating system, whether it is gas or oil forced air, high efficiency forced air, electric forced air, or baseboard hot water.
A cycle rate is the ideal number of times a heating system will run, in an hour, to maintain temperature within one degree. For instance, gas or oil forced air systems have a recommended cycle rate of 6. With a cycle rate of 6, the heating system, at a 50% load, will cycle 6 times per hour. This breaks down to about 5 minutes on and 5 minutes off. Again, the actual on and off time of the heating system will vary as the load on the heating system varies.
#6
I have no idea if they learn anything. They are not standard thermostats. They are made in Canada, I believe. Contact the manufacturer.
I doubt they overshoot the temp. More likely that the tolerance is tighter.
I doubt they overshoot the temp. More likely that the tolerance is tighter.
#7
Member
Thread Starter
"Again, the actual on and off time of the heating system will vary as the load on the heating system varies."
So the "CPH" is really just an anticipator setting ? Changing the CPH setting really just alters the 'self-heat' function of the anticipator ? The number of cycles is just an example of typical system run periods, but has nothing to do with the actual operation in a given setting.
Now, Im set at the lowest CPH setting (2) .. which should be the least 'heat' for anticipation right ? If Im overshooting temp, then I should increase the CPH setting.
So the "CPH" is really just an anticipator setting ? Changing the CPH setting really just alters the 'self-heat' function of the anticipator ? The number of cycles is just an example of typical system run periods, but has nothing to do with the actual operation in a given setting.
Now, Im set at the lowest CPH setting (2) .. which should be the least 'heat' for anticipation right ? If Im overshooting temp, then I should increase the CPH setting.
#8
I'm afraid I don't have a real answer for you because I don't fully understand the CPH logic myself!
It doesn't make sense to me... I mean, let's say you set it at 2 CPH. Heat call comes and is satisfied, but it is a VERY COLD AND WINDY NIGHT, and 10 minutes after heat call ends, thermostat needs heat again...
Is the thermostat going to sit and wait until a half hour is up before firing the boiler again? That wouldn't be too cool... wait... it would be TOO COOL, maybe even COLD!
I see that you use 'quotes' around the word 'self-heat' and am sure you are using analogy and know that the digital t'stats don't use an actual heating element... that it's all done electronically...
But perhaps your analogy is correct, that the CPH relates somehow to the anticipator setting of old, in a digital sort of way.
I think so... but that's the best answer I can give!
It doesn't make sense to me... I mean, let's say you set it at 2 CPH. Heat call comes and is satisfied, but it is a VERY COLD AND WINDY NIGHT, and 10 minutes after heat call ends, thermostat needs heat again...
Is the thermostat going to sit and wait until a half hour is up before firing the boiler again? That wouldn't be too cool... wait... it would be TOO COOL, maybe even COLD!
I see that you use 'quotes' around the word 'self-heat' and am sure you are using analogy and know that the digital t'stats don't use an actual heating element... that it's all done electronically...
But perhaps your analogy is correct, that the CPH relates somehow to the anticipator setting of old, in a digital sort of way.
If Im overshooting temp, then I should increase the CPH setting.
#9
I have no idea if they learn anything. ...
Hey guys just thought you might get a kick out of this. I was reading a book about the Brain and Consciousness and the writer making a point said:
“My thermostat is conscious. It either thinks it too hot, or too cold, or just right”.
Now I feel next time when one of my thermostats dies I have to have some kind of ceremony.LOL
#10
I have to have some kind of ceremony
"Will It Blend?"
Consciousness does not imply possession of a soul though. No Soul, No Ceremony!
#11
HaHaHa Trooper!
Right again Trooper. I never thought of cremation! And that point about No Soul, No Ceremony will save me some bucks.
Right again Trooper. I never thought of cremation! And that point about No Soul, No Ceremony will save me some bucks.
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