Water Circulation Problem

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  #1  
Old 11-22-12, 03:41 PM
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What Do You Call This Little Valve???

Goodie -goodie! I get to replace this inline valve! Can't wait!! Problem is, I don't know what to search for on the internet. It is in a 1-inch pipe in my boiler/baseboard home heating system. What is it called and who might have one? Didn't see any in Pex Supply...
 
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Old 11-22-12, 04:08 PM
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Pipsi, yer gonna have to pull the camera back a little bit so we can see more of the valve.

Take one from the side too.

Why do you have to replace it?
 
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Old 11-22-12, 04:09 PM
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Thats a simply stop. Why are you replacing it? Its part of the purge station. If you remove that integral stop you can replace with a simple ball valve and boiler drain... I assume there is a boiler drain directly below/above this?
 
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Old 11-22-12, 05:05 PM
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When I bled the system I had problems opening and closing the valve - felt like something was pretty gritty inside. Here's another photo...
 
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Old 11-22-12, 05:09 PM
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I'm way partial to these:


image courtesy pexsupply.com

50613 - Webstone 50613 - 3/4" SWT Webstone PRO-PAL Ball Valve w/ Drain

What's up with that silver stuff on the pipes? Is that insulation?
 
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Old 11-22-12, 05:27 PM
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That purge set looks upside down anyway....Useless I would think. But the fill looks above it so probably OK if so.

Hmm interesting. Foil??? I would like to see that expansion tank.... I have not seen that in years. Mounts on a 45?

Blue handled valve I would say late 70"s early 80's?
 
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Old 11-22-12, 05:52 PM
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That's gonna be a bit of a difficult repair with so little space to work in. I suppose you could always pull that tee with the capped off 1/2" out and have some room to fit the new valve with a couple of 'repair couplings'.
 
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Old 11-22-12, 06:09 PM
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Yes, the fill is above the valve. Water flows out of the boiler and up to the valve. Blue handle = didn't know they were color-coded by year (ha ha) and yes, the system was installed when the house was built in 1982. Just finished replacing the last of the original 3 zone valves. The one on the extreme right. It was a ***** to heat up though, so close to the wall. Also had to replace the pressure regulator and the PT valves earlier this year. Other than that, nothing else had to be replaced. I did rebuild the pedestal - it's not sagging as much as the photo makes it out to be, but until I find a way to lift that boiler (almost 300 lbs) it'll hafta do. I'm not in love with the foil-covered insulation but I just leave it in place until I need to replace whatever it's attached to. Yes, the expansion tank mounts on a 45-degree angle - see photo. Boiler has a nasty habit of blowing out the pilot once or twice each season - been doin' that as long as I've lived here (17 years). Ugh. I ate too much this T-giving dinner. Hafta eat a handful of Tums...
 
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Old 11-23-12, 10:19 AM
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Water Circulation Problem

A couple days ago I had to replace a zone valve. To remove the old valve I had to beat on it a little bit while holding the torch to its fittings. After installing the new valve and purging the system, it appears that the banging somehow damaged the circulator, but before popping for a replacement I'd like to have some reassurance that the pump is indeed the problem. Here are my observations:

1. All 3 zone valves open and close correctly as they did before I "repaired" the system.

2a. I purged all 3 zones until no air came out of the drain hose.

2b. One of the radiators on the upper floor has a little air bleeder on it. I opened it but no air came out so I assume that no air is trapped in the system.

2c. I made sure that the little bypass valve I mentioned in a previous post (yesterday) is indeed open to allow water to flow through the system piping.

3. System pressure is 15 PSI.

4. The pump motor turns and I can regulate its speed with its 3-position switch. I can feel its vibration when I press my ear against the housing.

5. The pump is installed between the zone valve manifold and the cold side of the boiler.

6. The water on the inlets of the zone valves is either cold or just luke-warm even after the valves have been open and the pump has been running for 2-3 hours. Water seems to circulate but the pump inlet side never gets hotter than luke-warm. It used to get almost as hot as the water coming out of the boiler.

7. The pump is a 115 VAC Grundfos UPS 20-42 and I cannot find that number on the Grundfos website so I assume it has been replaced by a different number. The pump is 30 years old and I don't know what pump to order should I have to order one.

Questions:

a) How is the impeller attached to the motor shaft, and could I have somehow damaged this connection when I had to bang the old zone valve away from its piping?

b) Is there some kind of repair kit for the pump? I saw on the Pex website a "Cartridge kit for select Grundfos UP circulators".

c) Is there anything else I could check before pronouncing the pump "bad"?

d) What is the replaceent for the 20-42 pump?

d) How do I get myself into these jams?

You can see the system setup in my previous post dated 11/22/2012.
 
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Old 11-23-12, 10:26 AM
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You can see the system setup in my previous post dated 11/22/2012.



I do not see any post from you with that date.

Never trust a pressure gauge. Please read the sticky:

http://www.doityourself.com/forum/bo...ure-gauge.html

Could be the pump, Could be lack of pressure, could be air...

Need to post pics.

 

Last edited by NJT; 11-23-12 at 02:11 PM.
  #11  
Old 11-23-12, 10:31 AM
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The name of the thread is "What do you call this little valve?"

[NJT EDIT: I've merged the two threads, should have been just one thread all along]

I have other photos. What part of the system would be most helpful to you?
 
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Last edited by NJT; 11-23-12 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 11-23-12, 11:00 AM
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Zone valve area.
Where the water feed ties in.
Purge station.

Get a hose bib screw on gauge and install at purge station hose bib. Make sure it corresponds to the gauge on the boiler.
 
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Old 11-23-12, 02:21 PM
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2a. I purged all 3 zones until no air came out of the drain hose.
Please explain the process by which you purged the zones. for example, where was the hose connected, what valves did you open/close, etc.

2b. One of the radiators on the upper floor has a little air bleeder on it. I opened it but no air came out so I assume that no air is trapped in the system.
OK, no air, but what? Did WATER ONLY come out? or NOTHING HAPPENED?

3. System pressure is 15 PSI.
c) Is there anything else I could check before pronouncing the pump "bad"?
Like Mike, I have my doubts about that. Verify the gauge accuracy first.

d) What is the replacement for the 20-42 pump?
I'm quite sure a 15-58 would work, I doubt that the wiring connection would line up with the conduit though, you would have to use a piece of flexible conduit in it's place.

I don't think the pump is bad. I think you still have air in the system.
 
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Old 11-24-12, 11:41 AM
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You were right - there was still air in the system.

After reading Larosa's last post I went downstairs to take some more photos. I touched the return pipe to the pump and found it was HOT! So the pump was/is indeed working properly. Big load off my mind.

I had two problems. The first was that I wasn't leaving the drain valve open long enough to properly bleed the air out of the zones. The second was that I wasn't closing the flow diverter enough to prevent water (and air bubbles) from re-entering the system during the purge. Now the system appears to be running properly, except that the little flow diverter developed a small leak and I'll need to replace it and go through the entire process again. But then I will know what I was doing wrong this time.

I learned a lot through this process, and want to thank you and Mike for your patience and help!
 
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Old 11-24-12, 03:27 PM
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little flow diverter developed a small leak
Where is the leak? If it is around the screwdriver slotted valve stem, you may be able to fix that simply by SNUGGING (only turn it a LITTLE BIT TIGHTER! Do NOT let your 'inner gorilla' turn the wrench!) that hex nut around the stem.

There is a 'valve packing' in there that can probably be compressed just a wee bit more and stop the leak.

In fact, the leak may stop by itself... but just slightly snug that nut down a tad and see what happens... IF that's where the leak is.
 
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Old 11-27-12, 02:37 PM
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Yes, the water is coming from between the slotted screw and the hex nut surrounding it. It's not much and I don't always see it. I think it evaporates. I think you're right - leaks like that sometimes do "scab over" so I'll just keep an eye on it.

I am curious about the valve itself though, is it a butterfly valve that opens and closes with a 1/4 turn? I can turn the stem about 3/4 turn and never know if the valve is closed when I want it to be.
 
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Old 11-27-12, 04:43 PM
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Snug the nut a little bit anyway. You don't want the water to evaporate and leave behind the mineral deposits because that will eventually damage the packing material.

Yes, 1/4 turn butterfly. Slot vertical is open, horizontal is closed.
 
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