Need assistance finding a compatible aquastat relay replacement for my boiler

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Old 11-27-12, 03:50 PM
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Question Need assistance finding a compatible aquastat relay replacement for my boiler

Just returned from Thanksgiving vacation to a 40 degree house! The wealth of information from this board helped me determine with a reasonable amount of certainty that the aquastat relay needs to be replaced (thank you):
  • There is no voltage from the TT terminals while the thermostats are calling for heat
  • Jumpering the two TT terminals also produced no results
  • A direct 24vac connection to the burner b1 b2 terminals immediately fires the boiler
  • Circ pump works if I manually push in the relay

The aquastat relay is Honeywell "L8148E 1034" and I am pretty sure it is the original. Apparently it is not made anymore and Honeywell did not have a part-search cross reference on their site and still have yet to respond to my email. Unfortunately none are for sale except an expired Ebay listing. So now I am resolved to find a replacement and I am having a hard time sifting through relay technical specs to determine a compatible replacement. My boiler is stamped 1979 Peerless model GEM-225A-WC. I have 5-6 zones I don't think I have a dampener on the exhaust, though I will check with I get home. Here is a pic of the aquastat.

Can any of you recommend a proper replacement Honeywell aquastat relay?

Thanks!
 
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Old 11-27-12, 04:58 PM
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Are your zone valves opening? I guess I would say the transformer in the aquastat is shot.

You have a meter to test voltage?

You may be best to just replace the transformer...Hmmm.

The honeywell aquastats I believe are all like 180f-240f with fixed diff. No means to lower below 180f.

It may be bet to get a stand alone aquastat and a separate circ control.

Wait for the pros. They will give additional info.
 
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Old 11-27-12, 05:13 PM
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What about your VENT DAMPER if you have one?

Is it OPENING on a heat call?

If damper don't open, boiler won't fire.
 
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Old 11-27-12, 05:52 PM
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Thanks for the quick reply's fellas: Each thermostat has a nice engage / disengage click. All zone valves appear to be working and have power running to them. When the thermostats are calling for heat I can hear the whirring from the motors and the valves are all opening up and properly closing when off.

If this is what a vent dampener is, then I am sure I don't have one. There are no wires running up my exhaust pipe outside of my cabinet. I also do not see a spill switch or leads running anywhere for one, so I don't think I have one of those either.

I do have a meter to test the voltage: I tested the switched 24vac transformer outside the boiler and both sets of leads are hot. The TT terminas do not have power. I also checked that 120v is being supplied to the L1 terminal on the aquastat. When the zone valves call for heat there is no click or sound whatsoever from the aquastat and the burner terminals remain dead. Are there anymore terminals to test on the aquastat to determine if its bad?

There is an additional Honeywell unit inside the cabinet wired to the aquastat with a dial that can be set from 70-140 and I found it set to 110. From reading up on this stuff I think it is an external limit controller?

I found these aquastats: L8148J1009 / L8148E1299 / L8148E1265

I noticed that the temerature ranges are a bit different 180-240f vs 120-240f and the differential is +- 8f. According to Honeywell's and Pex's site the J model replaced a lot of the older L8148E type relays but my model isn't specifically mentioned there or anywhere else. Would each work or none of the above? I've got a 33.3% chance of picking the right one=)
 
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Old 11-27-12, 06:42 PM
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I tested the switched 24vac transformer outside the boiler and both sets of leads are hot.
You are talking about the one that powers the zone valves I think?

The TT terminas do not have power.
You measured these when there was NO heat call? If you measured when a zone valve is open you won't see any voltage. Make sure all zone valves are closed with NO heat call and check again just to be sure.

If you've got no voltage there it's a good chance that the small transformer in the aquastat is toasted.

additional Honeywell unit inside the cabinet wired to the aquastat with a dial that can be set from 70-140 and I found it set to 110. From reading up on this stuff I think it is an external limit controller?
Sounds like it. A LOW limit control most likely. Does your boiler also supply your domestic hot water via a 'tankless coil' inside the boiler?

Do you recall from past history if the boiler always kept itself warm by firing at times even when no heat was called for?

I'll take a look-see at the aquastats...

Can you get a clear photo of yours? Including the wiring to the other aquastat? possibly the model of the other one as well?
 
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Old 11-27-12, 06:55 PM
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Hmmmm... that's weird that they have no replacement for that particular 'flavor'.

I wonder what's so different about it that the J1009/U won't work?

Let's see a clear pic of it...
 
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Old 11-27-12, 07:57 PM
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I tested both TT terminals when there was a heat call and at idle. Neither had any voltage readings. So I guess it's toast. Thanks for the conformation.

The boiler does not supply domestic hot water. I have a separate water heater.

Normally my boiler only fires when a thermostat requests heat. Otherwise it's just on pilot and never cycles on its own.

I removed the cover from the other aquastat and took some photos of everything. The second aquastat is model number T457A. The whole album is here.

Thanks again
 
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Old 11-28-12, 02:37 PM
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Well, believe it or not, you've got an OUTDOOR RESET control on your boiler. That's what the T475A control is. Whether or not it's hooked up or functional is another question.

Do you see a temperature probe (a think metal tube) coming off that 475 control and going outside somewhere?

Going to look at pics now...

Before I possibly insult you or a relative...

Tell me who wired that boiler, and how long it's been like that.
 
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Old 11-28-12, 02:57 PM
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Further looking at the pictures I can see that the 475 can't possibly be functional.

Here is the manual for it.

http://www.cgnacontrols.com/members/...ef016a7c65.pdf

There are two temperature sensors on that piece, one is supposed to sense the boiler temperature, and the other is supposed to be mounted outdoors.

Someone at some point has bundled the tubing and taped it to the pilot gas line at the bottom.

I'm sure the capillary tubing is damaged and that control is probably garbage.

I am going to recommend that it be removed and tossed.

This control may in fact be causing your problem. I can't see how it's wired, but it's very possible the cause...

Can you follow the two wires that are connected to that control and tell me in the pictures which two they are on the other end?


The wiring in your boiler is a mess.

The type of wire that was used is completely inappropriate and totally against any building or fire codes that may exist.

That should all be re-done with the proper cable which is called FMC (Flexible Metal Conduit) or just MC as you may find it called.

That rubber cord is NOT to be used in that fashion, EVER.

Have you had the boiler serviced ever? And not one of the techs that has looked at it has mentioned this?
 
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Old 11-28-12, 03:07 PM
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More about the 475 being possible cause of problem... maybe not... I re-read your posts and saw this:

I also checked that 120v is being supplied to the L1 terminal on the aquastat.
It appears that the 475 control is (improperly) wired to the L1 terminal. Is it?

My thinking was that the 475 was interrupting power to the aquastat, but you are saying that you have power there...

Are you absolutely certain?
 
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Old 11-28-12, 03:40 PM
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The wiring in your boiler is a mess.
I recommend getting a bona fide electrician to straighten out the wiring. It's potenially unsafe.
 
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Old 11-28-12, 04:22 PM
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Thanks for the input guys.
Have you had the boiler serviced ever? And not one of the techs that has looked at it has mentioned this?
No worries on insults...I did not install the boiler This is my first crack at it. I did have the boiler serviced about two years ago. The guy didn't say anything about the wiring. He simply cleaned it and replaced the thermocouple. I paid about 200 for what was a bit less than half an hours worth of work.

The wiring in your boiler is a mess.
The type of wire that was used is completely inappropriate and totally against any building or fire codes that may exist. That should all be re-done with the proper cable which is called FMC (Flexible Metal Conduit) or just MC as you may find it called. That rubber cord is NOT to be used in that fashion, EVER.
I will double check the 120v power at the L8148E L1 terminal when I get home. I know when the a thermostat was calling for heat there was power there and the cirulator pump worked if I manually depressed the relay. I really appreciate the input on the wiring. Good call. I did not realize I had a potentially unsafe installation in my home. I will see where the wiring from the 475 is routed when I get home and where the end of that capillary tubing terminates. When I figure out what Aquistat I need, I'll replace the existing wiring with Flex conduit. What gauge would you recommend a boiler application?

The L8148A controls line-voltage burner circuits; the L8148E,J control low-voltage burner circuits; the L8148J controls millivoltage burner circuits. All models control line-voltage circulator circuits. L8148A,E,J have provisions for adding low-limit controllers; L8148E,J can power valves in multizone systems. L8148E is available with a plug and 50 VA transformer for use with Honeywell smart Valve SV9500/SV9600.
I did a bit more research on the aquastats today. I found the above description from Honeywells site. I guess I just need to figure out what type of burner I have and if it is a milivoltage vs low-voltage (E vs J) and/or whether or not I have that type of smart valve / ignitor for use with the 1299. I think I am getting closer...Kind of enjoying the wood burning stove for the time being but its rough coming home to a cold house!
 
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Old 11-28-12, 04:39 PM
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I guess I just need to figure out what type of burner I have and if it is a milivoltage vs low-voltage (E vs J) and/or whether or not I have that type of smart valve / ignitor for use with the 1299.


Its a 24v system with standing pilot.



Wait for others to chime in but I am telling you IMO to get a individual hi limit aquastat. It will give you more control of temp and diff then the combined units.

Then get a seperate circ control and mount it outside the boiler jacket. Troop will help you wire her all up im sure.

Just my opinion.


Nix the ODR too.
 
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Old 11-28-12, 11:18 PM
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It appears that the 475 control is (improperly) wired to the L1 terminal. Is it? Can you follow the two wires that are connected to that control and tell me in the pictures which two they are on the other end?
The T475 load wire is nutted(orange nut in picture) to the load wire that goes directly to the gas valve for the burner. The line wire from the T475 leads to the B1 terminal on the aquastat. B2 terminal is the line wire to the burner. One temp sensor from the unit goes into the boiler and the other outside the house...I'll take both of your advice and toss it. Thanks

I am telling you IMO to get a individual hi limit aquastat. It will give you more control of temp and diff then the combined units. Then get a seperate circ control and mount it outside the boiler jacket. Troop will help you wire her all up im sure.
What is a seprate circulator control? Are you recommending I get an additional part outside the aquastat to improve my system? By 'High Limit only' are you saying that the E1299 or E1265 would work for me and forget about the J1009? If so, would either E model work? I'm 99% convinced I need a new aquastat and just want to order the right one as soon as possible. -Thanks fellas
 
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Old 11-29-12, 07:05 AM
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The trouble with all those units you linked to is that the two IMO you want more control over temp and diff.

Meaning two of them you cant set the temp below 180f. They have a 15f diff which is alright but having adustment with a 30 diff is best.

The one J1009 does have good temp range but only 8f diff.

So This is why I suggest a separate high limit. There are more choices.

I would say something like this for the aquastat. Install where the existing unit is.

L4006A1017 - Honeywell L4006A1017 - High or Low Limit Aquastat, 100-240F range, 5-30F Adj Differential

All have 100-240f temp range with a 5-30f temp diff.

( Let trooper confirm. They make a few different flavors and I am not sure the difference. Example : 4006a - 1017, 1678, 1967, 2007, )


Then get a separate relay .....


But upon further research I see in the Q and A, and notice it does not show in the manual the L8148E1299 has a 120-240 temp and 15f fixed diff. That may be your easiest option.

Here is what it says.

High Limit Vertical Mount Aquastat Relay, 15F differential

Q:

In a previous question, you state that the difference between the L8148E1299 and the L8148E1265 are the operating ranges. The L8148E1299 has an operating range of 120 F to 240 F and 54 C to 116 C. The L8148E1265 has an operating range of 180 F to 240 F and 100 C to 133 C. Why would one ever buy the 1265 (180-240 deg F) over the 1299 (120-240 F) if that is the only difference?

A:

The L8148E1265 also includes a Molex plug for use with vent dampers and a heat-conductive compound.

So sorry to confuse the issue......LOL

 
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