Gas onsumption can not be changed!????

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Old 12-13-12, 10:32 AM
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Unhappy Gas onsumption can not be changed!????

OK, to start we put in a Trinity 150c with the dedicated (tank-less) hot water feature after a 30 year old rust bucket seemed to throw gas away. I was promptly shocked by my gas consumption. Aug-Sept was 12m3, Sept-Oct 12m3 again, oct-nov was 489m3, WHAT? HOW? Enbridge keeps saying my consumption is in line with last years! GREAT!, $12,000 dollars later! I fought with them for a week to help me understand what was happening for such a steep and sudden spike. They offer NO HELP. So I start caulking, foaming and filling any hole or seem I can find. Having piled through 10 lg tins of "Big gap Filler" and reading the meter daily between 10&11 AM, there is no change in consumption. (The house feels warmer). Here is my big dilemma, I turn the heat down to under 15c/60f EVERY night, 3 days a week I work 125 miles way, those 3 days the heat is set for 15/60 for 20 of the 24 hours. It shows no pattern of reductions from day to day or even week to week. I am at a loss. My next move is a full house re-insulation. I really want to understand! It seems no matter how much I do or spend, consumption looks the same. I am confused!
 
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Old 12-13-12, 10:40 AM
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Do you have your consumption from last year to compare it to?

When you say that there's no change, you are confirming that you are actually using 16 cubic meters per day? (489 / 30 days)

Can you do some experiments to see where the usage is coming from? Try turning off your heat completely, check the meter, take a normal-length hot shower, and check the meter again. Was the amount of gas used reasonable?

Next, turn off all hot water usage in the house and run the furnace for 6 or 8 hours keeping the house temperature at a reasonable temp. Is that usage normal?


Insulating and weatherstripping is always a good thing to do, but your house obviously didn't become significantly less weather-tight in a month or year. It likely comes down to one of those appliances... most probably the tankless heater.
 
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Old 12-13-12, 11:12 AM
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Sadly, it was only after that first enormous spike and fighting with Enbridge that I started daily readings.I do have every monthly statement as generated by Enbridge, yes, my bills appear to be in line with last year. Over all, I saved 90/m3 over the year to date. I'm now doing morning and evening readings but just started. Over a two month period, there is no significant difference in consumption for those days when the heat is turned down to its lowest setting (15/60) I had hoped to start seeing a pattern of consumption between no heat days and 68F on home days. (I only go to 70 when we have guests over, none yet, Christmas is coming) We use cold water for laundry, floors, hand washing and general cleaning. 1 shower/1 sponge bath daily, 1 full bath a week. It is a pain waiting a minute for hot to hand wash so I just use cold. Also, note: On home days the back door is opened and closed at least 12 times a day to let my 2 dogs in and out and some of the time hubby waits with the door OPEN to let them back in. (While I yell!!!)
The caulking and foaming should have made a considerable difference, same for the plumbing stack area because in both of those areas it was almost like standing in front of an open window.
I am supposing I will need to keep all records for at least one full year to get Enbridge to consider me at all.
Do not misunderstand me, it is not that I think my bills are too high or expensive but I do want to be as efficient as possible and I do want to know that all systems are working properly. Then I will be able to say, OK, that's the bill and stop sweating it. BUT IT MUST MAKE RATIONAL SENSE TO ME! The gas events this year are not making sense. 17m3 with 20hours at 60 and again 17m3 with 68 for 20 hours, I just can not get my mind around it.
(Last year we had a hot water tank and used average amounts, 2 showers, dishes, cleaning, etc.)
 
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Old 12-13-12, 11:20 AM
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PS: I would need to know what "reasonable" is first! This is the very thing I am trying to understand. This situation is not looking reasonable to me so far. We are two empty nesters. Still apparently using like 4. No gas appliances, no ac, no hot water unless called for, no pilots of any kind. The system is either on or off. At 60, lately, it should have been off 60 hours each week and a good part of most nights. (I touch the rads to see how I'm burning from hour to hour because its a staged boiler system)
 
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Old 12-13-12, 02:37 PM
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"...with the dedicated (tank-less) hot water feature..."

And,

(Last year we had a hot water tank and used average amounts, 2 showers, dishes, cleaning, etc.)
This is at least part of the answer. Having a "tankless coil" in your boiler is about the worst method of making domestic hot water there is short of an open kettle on a wood-burning stove. The boiler MUST be kept hot at all times just in case you decide to use some hot water. That means that regardless of the setting of the room thermostat the boiler will fire periodically to maintain the internal temperature for that unknown time that domestic hot water is desired.
 
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Old 12-13-12, 02:50 PM
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Furd, I believe that the Trinity is a 'combi' and not nearly as bad as the kettle on the wood stove...

Also, it's a mod/com.

NTI - NY Thermal Inc. :: Gas Boilers - Trinity Ti
 
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Old 12-13-12, 02:53 PM
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Jennifer, did Enbridge also do the install?

What kind of heat emitters does the home have? fin-tube baseboard? cast iron radiators? etc

Who 'sized' the new boiler? In other words, did the installers do a proper HEAT LOSS calculation in order that they installed the proper size boiler in your home?

The 150 model is a pretty large boiler, do you live in a McMansion? (how many square feet is your home?)

Was it installed 'by the book'?

Did they install the OUTDOOR SENSOR? (following quote from the manual)

Failure to reconnect the Outdoor Sensor may increase fuel consumption
Can you take some pictures of the boiler and the piping all around?
 
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Old 12-13-12, 03:07 PM
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Do you know if the installers did this? (again from manual)

Boiler System Preparation

Prior to connecting plumbing to the boiler, flush the entire system to ensure it is free of sediment, flux, solder, scale, debris or other impurities that may be harmful to the system and boiler. During the assembly of the heating system, it is important to keep the inside of the piping free of any debris including construction and copper dust, sand and dirt.

For retrofits, all system piping including radiators, must be cleand of all build-up including sludge and scale. All systems, old and new, must be cleaned to remove flux, grease and carbon residue. NTI recommends cleaning the boiler system with “Fernox F3 Cleaner”. For retrofit applications with heavy limescale and sludge deposits, a heavier duty cleaner may be required; NTI recommends the use of “Fernox DS-40 System Cleaner”. For information on performing the cleaning, follow the instructions included with the Fernox DS-40 System Cleaner. See Table 9-1 for list of recommended boiler cleaning products.

Failure to rid the heating system of the contaminants listed above will void your NTI warranty and may result in premature heat exchanger failure and property damage.
 
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