Disable Tankless Coil in Boiler

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  #1  
Old 12-16-12, 10:20 AM
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Disable Tankless Coil in Boiler

Hi,
I get my hot water through a tankless coil in my oil fired boiler.
I want to eliminate it and install an electric hot water heater.
I want to leave the coil in the boiler.
Do I leave the coil inlet and outlet fittings capped or open??
Thanks
Angelo
 
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Old 12-16-12, 10:26 AM
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Do I leave the coil inlet and outlet fittings capped or open??
I believe you leave them open from what I have read here from the pros.


 
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Old 12-16-12, 10:29 AM
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Hi angelor Ė

Iím sure you will hear from the experts here, but if Iím not mistaken they are in unanimous agreement they should NOT be capped. Think itís a pressure build-up problem.

(Good for you, Iím getting rid of my coil too one of these days).

Just saw Mikeís reply.
 
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Old 12-16-12, 10:37 AM
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That's what I've heard all along, just want to be sure.
Leave them open, and if anything did happen to the coil it would start
leaking.
Angelo
 
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Old 12-16-12, 11:32 AM
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Yes, leave open, that's what manufacturers recommend. (at least the ones that mention it at all).

Chances are that there would not be a problem with pressure building in that small a volume, but why take chance?

If you want to make it 'look purty', just slip the cap on and don't solder.

You realize that unless you do something with the aquastat that the boiler will still fire on low limit, right?
 
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Old 12-16-12, 12:00 PM
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Forgot all about the aquastat.
Remove the whole thing and rewire into the loop or
jump the wires to eliminate it??
Angelo
 
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Old 12-16-12, 01:32 PM
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Remove the whole thing and rewire into the loop or jump the wires to eliminate it??
OMG! NO!

The aquastat MUST be there... you still need the HIGH LIMIT control. You only don't need the LOW LIMIT part now.

Tell me what make/model the boiler, and what make/model the aquastat installed on it. (look inside top cover of aquastat)
 
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Old 12-17-12, 07:26 AM
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This boiler is 50+ yrs old and runs OK
There are 2 controls, one in the boiler section and
the other just above it in the tankless coil.

The boiler control is SH 0100M (sid harvey)
The one in the coil is Honeywell L8024C

I wasn't able to add photos, but here is a link to photobucket.
BOILER CONTROLS Photos by angelo67 | Photobucket
 
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Old 12-17-12, 09:21 AM
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Angelo, were these uploaded to photobucket in that smaller size that they are showing? Or is photobucket now playing that resizing game itself? Used to be you could click the pic and see full resolution, doesn't appear that is possible any longer...

I need to look this over later...
 
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Old 12-17-12, 10:49 AM
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Must be "the new photobucket", no matter how large I edit them
they resort to the smaller size.
 
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Old 12-17-12, 11:28 AM
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Name:  boiler control1.jpg
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Name:  boiler control2.jpg
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Name:  boiler control3.jpg
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photos...........................................
 

Last edited by NJT; 12-17-12 at 03:38 PM. Reason: removed non working links
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Old 12-17-12, 11:32 AM
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Here's the last one.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]6733[/ATTACH]
 
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Old 12-17-12, 03:23 PM
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Yeah, looks like they changed the format and now can't blow pics up... bummer... ackshully, that 5uck5.

After seeing the pics, albeit smaller than I would like, I need to ask for more. Pull back with the camera and let us see the whole boiler. Specifically I would like to see where the Sid Harvey control is in relation to the flue pipe exiting the boiler and the actual oil burner.

If I had that L8024 here in front of me, I could determine how to modify it for 'cold start'... but it's so old I'm not familiar with which wire is which... so don't want to tell you anything about that becuz it could be bad info. Don't want you to burn down or blow up and then blame me (us) ! I'm sure you understand...

But let me think if there's a way I can figure it out. In the meantime, let's see a few more pics of everything.
 
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Old 12-17-12, 03:35 PM
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Angelo, in your 8024 aquastat, those two brown things side by side, are there LETTERS stenciled onto the top next to each terminal? Can you get a close up shot? and/or tell me which is which?
 
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Old 12-17-12, 03:39 PM
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By the way, the coffee can is a nice touch!
 
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Old 12-17-12, 05:57 PM
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Do these help?
Name:  boiler control5.jpg
Views: 1470
Size:  37.9 KB[ATTACH=CONFIG]6745[/ATTACH]Name:  boiler control8.jpg
Views: 3376
Size:  37.6 KB
 
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Old 12-17-12, 06:04 PM
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One more
That coffee can is hanging there for at least 14 years when I changed the coil.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]6746[/ATTACH]
 
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Old 12-17-12, 06:31 PM
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Darnit... I was hoping to see letters ... " W R B "

So, as good as those pics are, they aren't telling me what I was hoping to know.

Back to the drawing board!

I can tell you one thing though, that aquastat was manufactured in February 1959 !
 
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Old 12-17-12, 06:48 PM
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Well, in the meantime I'm going to get the hot water heater so I can rough in
the piping and elec.
I do have all the original paper work and schematics for the boiler and components install.
I think it was 1960 or 1961!
If the boiler was for heat only, would it still have two controls??
 
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Old 12-17-12, 06:49 PM
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Angelo, do you by any chance own a multimeter and know how to use it?

If you can take some measurements I think I can figure out which wires is which.

The modification is VERY easy and FULLY reversible if only I could tell the wires...
 
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Old 12-17-12, 07:56 PM
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I have a multi meter. Only used it to check for continuity or voltage.


[ATTACH=CONFIG]6752[/ATTACH]
 
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Old 12-18-12, 08:33 AM
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If the boiler was for heat only, would it still have two controls??
Yes, the Sid Harvey control is your oil burner primary control.

That one provides the burner safety... senses flame, shuts down if a problem with burner, etc...

The 8024 is the one that controls the water temp in the boiler...

Great! I didn't have any hope of finding the internal schematic for the 8024... now you don't need to mess with the meter.

I'll get back to you later this evening.
 
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Old 12-18-12, 10:20 AM
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First, you could just turn the LO setting all the way down and accept a bit higher fuel use.

Done sooner than expected. Here's what you can do to disable the LOW LIMIT.



After doing this, the "LO LIMIT CIRC" adjustment will have no effect, and the boiler will be allowed to cool between heat calls.

Monitor the system afterward for any signs of flue gas condensation, or any other problems that might seem to be caused by allowing the boiler to cool and if noted re-connect the wires as they were. I think you'll be fine though...

By the way, you know that boiler is 'ripe for replacement', yes?
 
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Old 12-18-12, 01:32 PM
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That looks simple! I should get to this next week. I'll keep you posted.
The pictures make the boiler look worse than what it really is (LOL!)
Had it serviced by the pro last year.......... 81% efficiency.
My neighbor had a new boiler installed and has had lots of problems with it.
But I think that has to do with the contractor that installed it.
I would maybe go all electric, or sell the house.
Thanks so much
Merry Christmas
 
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Old 12-26-12, 06:45 PM
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Angry

Well,
Installed the water heater today.
Can't say it went really smooth, since I made 4 trips to HD.
Even when I make a nice list I still forget something.
Great thanks to NJ Trooper for all his help.
Thanks all and have a happy New Year
Got heating oil delivery today. 221 gal @ $3.60
Angelo
 
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Old 12-26-12, 07:35 PM
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Got heating oil delivery today. 221 gal @ $3.60
Angelo


Ouch!!!! $795.60..... Thats my whole gas bill for the year........

 
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Old 12-27-12, 04:23 AM
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And thats for this little 1200 sq ft rancher in PA, pretty tight and insulated.
I'll get oil 4 or 5 times a year.
The heat bill here is almost the same as my other
house in Broollyn NY, 3 floors @ 1000 sq ft each with
gas steam boiler. About $3500.00 a year
 
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Old 12-28-12, 02:38 PM
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hi angelor -

...I'll get oil 4 or 5 times a year...


What do you keep your thermostat set at? My rancher is 2200 sq. ft. and I think I use less oil than you (in PA.) but I keep my thermostat low (64).

I use the "nose" method. I keep turning my thermostat down until I get to the point where my nose starts running while I'm sitting at the table eating breakfast/dinner then I know it's too cold. Then I just turn the thermostat up a notch.

Current Setting = 64 degrees Fahrenheit.

 
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Old 12-28-12, 03:06 PM
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1900 sq ft here and just passed 150 gallons yesterday so you're 70 gallons ahead of me, if that was your first delivery and you started with a full tank. Thermostat on hold at 70 (usually)

Maybe that 70 gallons is the penalty for running the tankless coil?

Dad, I use the 'toes' method myself. But then I may be built upside down...

My nose runs and my feet smell... whattaya think?
 
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Old 12-28-12, 07:15 PM
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Dad, I use the 'toes' method myself. But then I may be built upside down...

My nose runs and my feet smell... whattaya think?



I repeat that joke often "Does your nose run and your feet smell. If so then you must be built upside down" Think I heard it on TV or somewhere many many years ago.

Thought only those ancient folks in the depths of decrepitude (like me) would know that joke. But obviously that excludes you! Dang it! Seems like you know everything. Maybe someday we will find out NJ Troooper is a high-end computer. (LOL)
 
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Old 12-29-12, 12:22 AM
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Does your nose run and your feet smell? Oh,oh, you're built upside down!
I first saw that in an ancient Mad magazine, probably from the late fifties or early sixties.
 
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Old 12-29-12, 10:18 AM
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OMG - maybe I used to read Mad Mag and I totally blocked it out of my mind. LOL


(I really do use that "nose" method I referenced in post below. If I'm sitting around and my nose gets a little runny, then I know the thermostat must be too low because that doesn't seem right to me, i.e. might not be very healthy. Turn up the t'stat and runny nose disappears.

Never thought about it till lately, but I believe it is NOT recommended to keep your thermostat too low if you are a little on the elderly side. So I guess folks should always keep that in mind when setting their t'stat. I would have never thought of that.

I guess you might save yourself a few bucks on oil but wind up with a big hospital bill, or worse, youíre not around to see the bill!)
 
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Old 12-29-12, 01:00 PM
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I think that saying is even older than Mad Mag... and I believe I'm older than ZD thinks I am!
 
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Old 12-29-12, 05:52 PM
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I keep it at 66 or no higher than 68.
I usually get the tank filled about the middle of March and will be empty by mid Sept.
I'm thinking that I can save about a $900.00 tank of oil.
I can't wait to see the next elec. bill
 
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Old 12-29-12, 07:04 PM
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I keep it at 66 or no higher than 68.
I usually get the tank filled about the middle of March and will be empty by mid Sept.
I'm thinking that I can save about a $900.00 tank of oil.
I can't wait to see the next elec. bill


That will be a great savings (minus electric of course). I use a lot during the spring and summer also, but I don't think a full tank. My coil is also on the to-junk list. I did not know that the "thankless coil" really stinks until I heard Trooper and the other experts here say (unanimously I might add) they are very inefficient and really should go.

Good luck and happy savings!
 
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Old 12-30-12, 09:53 AM
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Now, everytime I hear the boiler kick in for heat, it could be
making hot water!!!
Can't Win
 
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