Problem with Bell & Gossett series 100 Pump

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Old 12-17-12, 10:14 AM
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Post Problem with Bell & Gossett series 100 Pump

I have a small 4 bedroom two floors house with a Peerless gas boiler. It has two B&G 100 pump one cast iron the other one is bronze body. the bronze seem to be difective, the motor just hums but it does not turns. to replace it it cost almost $700 at my local store and about $460 on the web. The cast iron is only $245 on the web; are they interchangible? I have a separate hot water tank (gas), Some one tall me to just replace the motor but all I can find is the cast iron body, not the bronze. Are they the same? Any help it greatly appiciated, I only have one good pump now (the red one). thanks
 

Last edited by NJT; 12-24-12 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 12-17-12, 10:24 AM
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Pepe, you might be able to use different pumps. Those old style pumps don't always have to be replaced with same...

We would need to see pictures of the system for starters...
 
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Old 12-17-12, 10:25 AM
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You should get rid of the Band G. Install a taco 007 in its place. The B and G are energy hogs.

1/25 HP Circulator Pump-007-F5 at The Home Depot
 
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Old 12-17-12, 11:23 AM
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We do need to know why one of them is bronze though...
So no matter what, we need pics
 
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Old 12-17-12, 08:29 PM
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PEX has a motor for $214 SKU111034. You can buy the bearings and you can buy the impeller kit for about $15. I have rebuilt my pump so many times over the past 35 years that I should have replaced it with something better. I tried the bronze bearing assembly and that lasted a little longer, but it was not worth the money. I have always used the plastic impeller.

Are you sure it is the motor humming? When the relay on my aquastat goes bad, it sounds like the motor is humming but it is not. Clicking the on off switch sometimes gets the relay to latch. If you can use a multimeter, test the voltage between C1 and C2 to make sure you have voltage to run the motor. Be careful though it should be around 120 Volts.
 
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Old 12-18-12, 12:41 PM
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It is the motor, I took it out and tested it; it does not starts(does not turns) it just hums. Thanks for all your help. In term of using another pump, I don't know if I have to worry about in what direction they turn since there is one on each side of the boiler. Attached is a pic of the system.
 
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Old 12-18-12, 01:01 PM
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You have two zone? Two t stats? Seems there is seperate supply and return to the boiler.

Possible the coupler is broke keeping the motor from turning.

How did you remove the motor?
 
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Old 12-18-12, 02:48 PM
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I separated the motor from the bearing assembly and coupler (removed the 4 screws). I applied electricity to the motor and it does not turns. The coupler looks fine and the bearing assembly turns smoothly.
 
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Old 12-18-12, 04:19 PM
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I'm not sure if those B&G motors (a.k.a. "Power Packs") are capacitor start. If so, maybe just replacing the capacitor would fix it? Try this: with your decoupled motor, try spinning the rotor by hand, both one way and the other, and see if it takes off.
 
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Old 12-19-12, 01:09 PM
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Those motors are split-phase, with a centrifugal starting switch. Many times, those switches get stuck, so the motor will just hum when power is applied. As Gilmorrie said, try giving the motor a spin by hand & see if it takes off. Also, as others have said, consider replacing the whole shebang with the 007 pumps. Better efficiency, less expensive, and longer lasting
As for the bronze pumps, we used to use them for domestic hot water circulators, but never for general heating loop purposes. WAY too expensive.
Andy
 
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Old 12-19-12, 01:21 PM
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Andy, that's good info. Since the motor hums, I suspect that the centrifugal switch may be the culprit, sticking open. If so, it would be worthwhile trying to unstick it - at least it would give you a spare pump even if you decide to replace it with a Taco.
 
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Old 12-19-12, 05:00 PM
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I'll try your subjections. I don't know why it has a bronze pump, I turn the system off for the summer and I have no problem with the water supply so I know it's not being used to recirculate water in the house. I don't know much about heating system but I'm very handy, so I can change the pump. Do I have to worry about the direction the water is flowing? or the pump will take care of that. I'm unemployed now so I can affort the Taco 007, not the B&G. Thanks for your assistance.
 
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Old 12-19-12, 05:07 PM
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There is a arrow on the housing. Should be pointing down. Install the new pump in the same configuration.

The issue you may have is the two flange distances are different from what I remember. You may need to shorten the gap and change nipples when you change the flanges.
 
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Old 12-21-12, 08:27 AM
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I removed the motor again as sujested; if I give it a spins it takes off. It sound a little rough at the back, like a scrassing noise. I let it run for about 10 minute but it still does not starts onless I give it a spin. If the problem is the centrifugal switch, how do I unstick it?
 
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Old 12-21-12, 08:55 AM
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The split phase isn't getting energized. To get to the centrifugal switch, you remove the rotor from the stator housing: https://fhaspapp.ittind.com/literature/files/527.pdf

You can probably clean up the switch with a solvent - or new replacements are available.
 
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Old 12-22-12, 08:19 AM
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You Have been very helpful. I opened the motor and gave it a good cleaning. Now it starts w/o help but at random direction. Sometimes starts clockwise, other times counter-clockwise; it needs to turn counter-clockwise (the direction of the arrow on the pump) like the other one. Another problem is that it does not enough starting force, if I hold the shaft with two fingers it just humms; it takes off when I let it go. The bearing assembly works fine with the motor from the other pump, the old one just humms when I connect it. I found remanufactired one on Ebay for $96 and I'm planing on buying it. Bell Gossett 1 12 HP Circulator Motor Series 100 111034 and 106189 | eBay I would buy a taco 007 but I still don't know why I have a bronze pump in my system.
 
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Old 12-22-12, 10:04 AM
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Strange. But, temporarily, you can still use the pump. A centrifugal pump will produce flow in the same direction whether it runs forward or backwards, but a bit less efficiently.

A split-phase motor will devolop very low starting torque compared to a capacitor-start motor - not surprising that it wouldn't start if you held the rotor. But I can't explain the random direction. Did you remove the centrifugal switch and possibly reconnect the wiring the opposite way?
 
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Old 12-22-12, 12:06 PM
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It is put together the way is was, I labeled and took pictures to make sure it was put together right. The randomness has gone away, I spun it counter-clockwise and then applied eletricity while it was spinning and let it run for about 10 mins; now it starts on that direction, still not enough torque at starts. I don't know what else to do, I have a whole zone with very little heat and not enough money to buy a similar pump. Should I go with that remanufature motor?
 
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Old 12-22-12, 12:34 PM
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How long does it take to accelerate to what appears to be full speed? Does the pump spin freely by hand without power applied? When you say it doesn't have enough starting torque, can you describe how you know that? Have you recently put a couple of drops of electric motor oil in the oil cups?
 
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Old 12-22-12, 01:31 PM
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Both the motor and the bearing assenbly are well lubricated and both turns smoothly by hand. I took the good motor from the other pump and connected the the bearing assembly and it work fine, so I know that the B/A is not the problem. I know that the motor in question does not have enough starting tourque because it turn well when noting is connected to it it just takes a a second or two to come to full speed, but even if I just hold the shaft with two finger, it will not start; it just hums.
 
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Old 12-22-12, 01:40 PM
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I assume that your other motor, the one you think works OK can't be held with two fingers? But, whatever - if the motor comes up to full speed in a second or two, I don't really perceive a problem. What difference does it make as long as it starts? But, if if bothers you, replace it.
 
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Old 12-22-12, 06:22 PM
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Gilmorrie, I appriciate all the help you have giving me but you are missing the point. I have a two-zone system (pic above) with two B&G series 100 circulating pumps. One went bad and with the help I have gotten here I was able to get the motor to work again but it still does not drive the pump. I connected the motor from the pump that's still works to test the bearing assembly on the pump that went bad and it drive it with no problem. Even though the motor (from the pump that's not working) starts now, it does not drive ether pump (the good or the bad). I beleave it is because it does not have enough torque at start. I have learned a great lot about this things on this forum, I never deal with boiler before, I had a heat pump on my other house in Florida. It's not that I want to replace the motor, it just does not drive the pump.
 
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Old 12-22-12, 06:33 PM
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Pepe, when you say you have a 'bronze' pump, are you talking about just only the PAINT COLOR? In your pic I see a red one and a gold one... is the one painted the gold color really a bronze metal construction? Or did someone perhaps paint it that color for some reason?

Can you look at the data plates on both pumps and tell us the numbers on them?

Are both of these pumps used for the HEATING? One is not used for potable water supply in any way, is it?

I believe that there IS A START CAPACITOR underneath that 'hump' on the motor... where the wires connect... isn't there?
 

Last edited by NJT; 12-22-12 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 12-22-12, 06:40 PM
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One went bad and with the help I have gotten here I was able to get the motor to work again but it still does not drive the pump.
OK, that's the first time I heard that the motor wouldn't "drive the pump," only that it took 1-2 seconds to accelerate to full speed. Replace it and let's be done with it.
 
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Old 12-22-12, 06:41 PM
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I don't know if it is just the paint or it really bronze, but according to what I see on the net that is the gold is the color fro the bonze one. As far as I can see none of this pump are use for potable water, the system it turn off for the summer and I have not problem with the water supply; the same now with the pump not working. Both of the pump are connected to the boiler, two supply pipes and two return pipes (pumps connected to the return pipes). The a separate tank for hot water.
 
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Old 12-22-12, 07:00 PM
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Somebody used that pump because they either had it on hand and it was free, or it fell off a truck. You don't need to use a bronze pump for a heating system.

Check the capacitor.
 
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Old 12-22-12, 07:11 PM
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I absolutely HATE the fact that both Bell & Gossett and Honeywell have redesigned their websites so as to make it nearly impossible to find information anymore... took me forever to find this again!

http://documentlibrary.xylemappliedw...-105-SM-R3.pdf

Although, it doesn't help much because there is no breakdown of the motor... but I think I may have been mistaken that this pump has a capacitor.
 
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Old 12-22-12, 07:18 PM
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The B&G series 100 does not have capacitor, just a centrifugar switch inside, it is a very old disign.
 
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Old 12-22-12, 07:26 PM
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Then, I finally found the motor parts lists...

http://documentlibrary.xylemappliedw.../CP-25B-PL.pdf

[late edit: this appears to be the same file that gilmorrie linked to earlier post]

Your motor is the 1/12 HP number 111034

Page 7 is the exploded diagram of your motor

Page 13 is the parts list.

Please post the information from the dataplates on the pump if you want further help.
 

Last edited by NJT; 12-24-12 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 12-22-12, 07:36 PM
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Looking at the parts lists, and googling the part numbers for the centrifugal switch and switch plate, coming up real short on both...

But Patriot has your choice of the genuine 111034 or the aftermarket by Emerson for a lot less $

Patriot Supply -

Also shown on this page are the apparently discontinued parts you probably need for the start switch.
 
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Old 01-02-13, 07:47 AM
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You were right, the pump is not bronze it was just painted that color. The parts number for all 3 parts are the same as the cast iron (motor, bearing assembly). I ordered a taco 007 for 1 third of the cost of the B&G. I need some guidance in changing the pump, since my system does not have service valve on both side of the tube the pump is attached to. It only has one service valve on the side of the boiler. So i assume all the water on the return pipe will have to be drained and refills it when im done. When refilling the boiler, what is the water presure I need to have? I see on the side of the boiler list the MAX PRESSURE IS 30PSI. Now the pressure is about 13psi when cool and it goes to about 25psi when it is on. Thanks for the assistance.
 
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Old 01-02-13, 08:13 AM
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Yes, you'll have to drain the system below the pump. With the system depresurized and drained, check the air charge in the expansion tank - 13 psi would be fine. Then fill the boiler to 13 psi, cold.

It would be a good idea to add another shut-off valve so you don't have to drain the system to replace the pump or the 007 cartridge.
 
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Old 01-02-13, 09:35 AM
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I don't have any tool to check the air change on the expansion tank.
 
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Old 01-02-13, 09:43 AM
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You have a bladder-type expansion (the big red jobbie in your photo). You can check the air charge with a simple low-range tire gauge after the system is depressurized. Refer to the sticky: "Pressure Relief Valve leaking? Service your bladder type expansion tank!"
 
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Old 01-02-13, 09:52 AM
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Ok I can do that. Thanks for all your help,it is greatly appriciated
 
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