Help I have no heat! Hot water baseboard heating system 2 zones

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Old 12-20-12, 06:07 PM
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Help I have no heat! Hot water baseboard heating system 2 zones

When the zones call for heat, nothing happens at the boiler.

In my house, I have 2 zone baseboard hot water heating using a Peerless Gas Boiler (Johnson Controls). Honeywell controls are the thermostats.

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I have 20Psi at the boiler and no temperature.

The power is on.

I replaced the circulator last year and the expansion tank.

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When I turn on the red switch outside the room, I hear the circulator running so the thermostats are working. I have no fire in the burner. Please let me know if you can help. I have replaced a bunch of components on the system before with success.
 

Last edited by NJT; 12-20-12 at 07:22 PM.
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Old 12-20-12, 06:27 PM
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Is this a gas-fired boiler?
 
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Old 12-20-12, 06:50 PM
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To the OP, too much to diagnose over the Internet,does the pilot light?
A heating technician with a meter and a knowledge how to use it is the best place to start.
 

Last edited by NJT; 12-21-12 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 12-20-12, 06:53 PM
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So the zone valves open, the circulator runs, but no fire in the boiler?
 
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Old 12-20-12, 07:00 PM
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I have an intermittent pilot control and it usually ticks multiple times when calling for heat but in this case I don't hear any of that.
 
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Old 12-20-12, 07:22 PM
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You have a Johnson Control G779LHA intermittent pilot control sitting there right in front of you. You will need a voltmeter to see if that module is getting its needed 24 VAC. The terminals are clearly labeled.
 
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Old 12-20-12, 07:25 PM
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I'm not even going to mention the rubber jacketed portable cordage which was used where it should have been metal jacketed MC cable... nor will I say a thing about those electrical taped connections.

But the IGNITION SPARK cable coming out of the control... also taped up... I wonder if that is even the correct HV cable that it needs to be?

If I was working on this the first thing I would do is clean up that wiring around the control and make sure the ignition cable wasn't grounding out or burned through. Then I would check all the grounds for same.

In fact, before even beginning to try and figure out why it wasn't working, I would probably insist that the whole thing be re-wired with proper materials and good workmanship.

Anything short of that is inviting a call-back and a pissed off customer because it 'broke' again 10 minutes after the tech walked out the door.
 
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Old 12-20-12, 07:42 PM
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There is no 24V power on the intermittent pilot control. Also the green LED below the control is not on. I did not do the electrical taped connections but I appreciate any advice on fixing those.
 
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Old 12-20-12, 07:47 PM
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Vinny, is there a 24VAC transformer to be found anywhere on or around the boiler?

If so, check to see if it's working.

To fix that wiring, it appears to me that much or most of it would have to be replaced.

What is the full model of the boiler? I know it's a peerless, but what model?
 
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Old 12-20-12, 07:58 PM
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I have a Peerless Model MMW-85A-WC-1, 69000 btu per hr. The plastic shell on the control below it is warped. It looks like the control has a problem. I unscrewed the control from the wall and moved to another location on the wall. I tested the system and it worked with spark and everything. So maybe the problem is with the wiring? I still think its the control.
 
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Old 12-20-12, 08:07 PM
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I unscrewed the control from the wall and moved to another location on the wall.
What control ? The ignition control ?
 
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Old 12-20-12, 08:22 PM
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No worries. I put it back in the original location. I'll keep the heat off and get another control in the morning. Its too bad they cost almost $200. What a Christmas present! Do you have suggestions on getting another model? My thinking is stick with the same one.
 
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Old 12-20-12, 08:38 PM
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I'm not directly in the business like Trooper is.

I believe that Johnson control you have is a discontinued model. There are replacements for it.

See link for a replacement.

https://www.combustiondepot.com/stor...detail&p=18125
 
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Old 12-20-12, 08:49 PM
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PJ, believe it or not, not my direct line of work...

I believe that Johnson was a replacement at one time. The boiler probably came with a Honeywell originally.

Here's your manuals:

Series MMW
 
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Old 12-21-12, 06:56 PM
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Thanks for your help. I picked up a Honeywell S8610U Control and installed it. On the device, there are tiny DIP switches for setting trial for ignition time of 90 sec (default) vs 15 sec. Is there any reason to choose either? My old control had a 25 sec TFI. I decided to change it to 15 sec. Great News! The heat turns on! I am getting 200 deg F and 25 Psi. Everything appears normal. Now to get back to wrapping gifts for the holidays.
 

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Old 12-22-12, 11:12 AM
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Vinny, why 200? If that is what your aquastat is set to, turn it down to 180.

Why 25 PSI? If your gauge is accurate, that is very borderline.

Does the pressure start at 12 PSI when boiler is cold?
 
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Old 12-22-12, 04:59 PM
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Funny thing. The aquastat is set to 180. For the past few weeks leading up to this issue, I noticed that for just the 2nd floor zone, when the heat would turn on, I would hear this long building pressure sounds almost as if a plane was taking off in my house. And this would happen each time the heat would turn on for the 2nd floor zone. So when the heat didn't turn on 2 days ago, the first thing I did was check the pressure and temperature. Of course the temperature was at the lowest reading but the pressure about 5 psi. I typically leave the water valve off into the system. So when I opened the valve to let water into the system, I was surprised to hear a lot of water enter the system. So maybe that noise was water filling the pipe up to the second floor. When the system was done filling with water, I had maybe 20 psi in the system at cold. So maybe I let too much water in. But now that weird filling sound is gone which is a good thing. I should proably drain some water out out the system to get around 12-15 psi cold.

I got maybe 5 years out of the old control. The damage was right near the 24v electrical connector and the ground. Is this the typical life of a control or is there something else that I should check here? Maybe I need to replace those wires with the electrical tape (Aquastat to Control) with a new one as you mentioned?
 
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Old 12-22-12, 05:18 PM
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The damage was right near the 24v electrical connector and the ground.
What damage? Can you show us?

Three rules to live by:

1: never trust a boiler gauge.

2: never trust a boiler gauge.

3: never trust a boiler gauge.

Bottom line, never trust a boiler gauge.

Did we ask you to read these two yet? I forget easy and too lazy to look back:

http://www.doityourself.com/forum/bo...ure-gauge.html

http://www.doityourself.com/forum/bo...sion-tank.html

I would advise taking care of those things...

Maybe I need to replace those wires with the electrical tape (Aquastat to Control) with a new one as you
It may not have anything to do with the failure of the control, but there is no 'maybe' about it. That rubber jacketed stuff is NOT EVER to be used for any kind of permanent installation. The NEC (National Electrical Code) calls it " PORTABLE CORDAGE " and that's exactly what it is... an extension cord.

I don't know how much of the other wiring inside the boiler has been 'modified', but from what I can see that spark cable ain't right either!

So yeah, whether it has to do with the problem or not, it should be fixed.
 
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Old 12-23-12, 02:31 PM
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I agree with getting new wires but I don't know what to buy. I looked through the manuals and there doesn't appear to be any specs for that. Maybe I overlooked it. Here is a pic for the damaged control (lower right).
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Old 12-23-12, 03:12 PM
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Looks like just the plastic case is cracked... but whatever, replacing the control seems to have fixed your problem.

Take more pics of the wiring, pull the camera back some so we can see where all those wires go to and from. This will help us suggest what you might do to correct the other wiring issues.
 
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Old 12-23-12, 05:39 PM
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So I checked the colored wires and they meet the spec of 105 Deg. C and higher but should I replace the electrical tape with a wire nut (that is a simple fix). Can I just shield the wire in metal conduit? This way radiant heat will not be an issue. Please let me know if this these pics are helpful. Name:  DSC02514a.jpg
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Old 12-23-12, 05:47 PM
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Interesting corrosion on romex connector on circulator pump.
Is something dripping on it or is the pump leaking ?
 
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Old 12-23-12, 06:12 PM
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Are you talking about the large rusted pipe vertically below the circulator pump that enters the boiler? About 6 years ago, there was condensate dripping off the pipe above the circulator pump but I haven't seen any water coming out of the circulator pump seals recently. At least there is no puddles on the floor.
 
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Old 12-23-12, 06:16 PM
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Interesting corrosion on romex connector on circulator pump.
I think that's glare from the flash you are seeing. You won't see it on the earlier pics in the thread, but it does appear that the connector has been turned a bit since then.
 
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Old 12-23-12, 06:20 PM
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Can I just shield the wire in metal conduit?
No, sorry, totally against NEC.

You need to replace the whole wire run.

ALL of that rubber jacketed wire needs replaced.
 
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Old 12-24-12, 03:16 PM
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Vinny... seems we told you all about how to wire that boiler properly almost a year ago, and you totally ignored us... bad Vinny! :bad poster: unish: :NO NO NO:

http://www.doityourself.com/forum/bo...or-broken.html
 
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Old 12-27-12, 01:41 PM
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So I should get 12/3 PVC 105 Deg C wire - PVC wire and run it though FMC ... I'll see if they have this stuff at Home Depot. Thanks!
 
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Old 12-27-12, 02:05 PM
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No, 12/3 refers to Romex-type NM cable. Just use 3 separate THHN or THWN building wires, and push them through the FMC. If it's on a 15-A ckt, use AWG 14 wire; if it's on at 20-A ckt, use AWG 12. Use the proper fittings and anti-short bushings where the FMC enters a box.
 
 

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