Removing Tankless Coil, replacing with Superstor and other questions


  #1  
Old 12-31-12, 11:25 AM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 137
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Removing Tankless Coil, replacing with Superstor and other questions

Good Afternoon All,
I'm going to put as many questions and info as possible in this post. I just moved into my current house (Setauket area, middle of Long Island, suffolk county, NY) in August, 4 bedroom colonial center hall, entry foyer area, semi finished basement (paneled but not insulated, thin carpet on floor, no baseboard (yet)), total about 3300sf of building/living space not counting 2 car garage (unheated). Central air system a/c only, hot water baseboard heat. Some windows updated to casements (replacements not new construction), others vinyl replacement double hungs with minor cracks/air leaks at was once "welded? seams". Attic insulation was added to but not consistent and seeing what else was done (or not) I'm going to say no updated wall insulation either. 2.5 bathrooms to be changed to 3.5 bathrooms when we convert family room to larger bedroom with bathroom on first floor for my father in law. He's in great shape and runs/works out everyday but like all of us getting older daily. In the house is 2 kids (12 and 9), wife, 67 yo father-in-law and myself. I definitely have some serious caulking, sealing, insulating tasks ahead of me that grow as it gets colder out and I feel more drafts, just a time, money and energy thing.


Oil tank was replaced 10 years ago, 550 gal in ground, epoxied metal according to paperwork. Gas is not an option as closest point run according to gas company would cost me $160k just to get it here.

The house has a Peerless WBV-04 with tankless coil, riello head, 160-180 set points on aquastat, no mixing/tempering/scald valve. One 24V t-stat going through aquastat (first floor) one 120V t-stat (second floor) wired to Taco -007.

Boiler runs OFTEN as it's cold out and I'm losing all the heat out of chimney. My plan is to ditch the tankless coil and add a 40 gallon superstor indirect. The Peerless is 10 years old and seems in good shape.

The other day I ran out of oil which let me find out that the oil siphon/feed tube is 8" off bottom of tank leaving 60-ish gallons unusable. When I ran out the second floor circulator ran and brought the boiler to less than 70 degrees. Water was dripping slightly from gasket at tankless coil. When I switch to the indirect I'd like to get rid of tankless coil instead of just leaving it in there with pipes cut. I know I need to get a blank plate for it (I presume it's available) with new gasket and hopefully prevent future leaks.


My biggest goal is to provide enough hot water for the house while obviously wanting to reduce fuel usage. Currently we run out, get scalded, constantly play with shower control and then the heat kicks in sending it all in to a tailspin. In the future there might be other options like better equipment and possibly gas if others around want it but for now I need to go with what's here and deals that I got. A family member just converted to gas upstate and went whole house tankless so I was given a 6-7 year old Superstor 40 gallon. I know used is not prefered but I was planning on getting a new SSU-45 or 60 as part of this project prior to the donation. If anything happens with tank I can always do that later. For now it gives me an extra 1k to work on the other stuff.


When I add the superstor I'm also going to turn the boiler 90 degrees so I can access the riello easier for maintenance and give space in the "closet" for the superstor next to it while still being able to get at the water main if needed. The company that installed the boiler installed piping so the swing away door won't open, return piping is less than 1/4" from wall like you could really add something there, expansion tank is sideways with no support, draft control was older flat plate with screw to weight inside that was "jammed" closed on itself as hinge sagged. I replaced it with a new Field Controls damper already.


Homeowner also hadn't done much other maintenance as there was 1/8" sludge around oil nozzle filter, screen was 90% clogged, and filter actually had to be pried out of sludge in the can (that was 3 weeks before I ran out of oil) boiler was cutting out due to starving for fuel.

Chimney has stainless sleeve and also cleaned at same time as boiler maintenance.
When all is being done I also plan to add a Field Oil Vent Damper to keep some more of the heat in. I know reading many posts here over the years that a true heat loss calculation should be done and everything resized accordingly but prior to that I need to do all the sealing replacing and I'm only up for so many arguments with the wife on spending priorities, not to mention the "wants" of redoing kitchen etc.


I know NJtroopers (and others) thoughts on the heat manager and HW+ (though my experience differs). The supply house recommended the new Beckett Aquasmart since I need a new aquastat anyway which also gives me a LWCO when installed. The Aquasmart has heat manager built in (with newer DOE algorithms supposedly) but they also now have a wireless temperature sensor that provides an outdoor reset that overrides the HM which according to all I read here is much preferred.


The HW+ on my old house saved me almost 30% which like this house was probably a way oversized system. I have no problem using the HM that comes as part of the aquastat to try it hoping for similar results. I'm also not closed minded and willing to try other options like the outdoor reset. Would a tekmar version be better to install as opposed to the Beckett add on version? Would it be better to get a different aquastat or something else that integrates better with a tekmar version? How much effect do any of the the ODR's have on the system when the superstor calls for heat? With the current people in the house and shower times (no matter how much I argue) I know that shower usage is and will be almost 1 hour/day. If tekmar is better choice, which version/model is recommended and why? what are the differences.


When we do the family room conversion (at least I'll get to insulate/seal correctly) I will be breaking out that room from the first floor loop and adding a tstat for him, I'd also like to add a radiant loop under the kitchen and 1/2 bath (and maybe his bathroom) to get the really cold ceramic tile warmer. Not looking to replace the baseboards just get the floor more comfortable. Kitchen has baseboard in open areas but obviously not by cabinets. 1/2 bath 5x6 is all on inside walls (no windows) and has no baseboard currently, with door closed bathroom gets chilly. Ventilation is from a 1 year old Panasonic ceiling fan (according to receipt in house papers saved/provided), ducting not insulated from what I saw and I presume just whatever draft/flap door is on the fan. It vents to a through the roof hooded looks like Home Depot kit.


The kitchen and 1/2 bath are over the basement with accessible joists (dropped ceiling tiles). The family room that will be converted is on a slab so will require some cement cutting breakup for bathroom plumbing and radiant. As much as I'd like to do radiant in whole room the $$ arguments and feasibility I don't see it happening. In the bathroom area probably pretty easy since I need to cut for drains anyway. All plumbing accessible pretty easy/close where bathroom will be as wall is adjacent to basement. Family room slab is 7-8" lower than 1/2 bath right next to it which is over basement area. The total radiant area would be about 250sf of floor area to be covered.



The parts I currently have are the OVD, superstor, Taco SR506, and the installed Peerless.
One other issue I have is that the first floor heat when it turns on (more noticeable when it turns off) makes a whistle sound like there is a restriction or pressure issue of some sort. When it turns off it sounds like a hi to low whistle (like a bomb dropping). Very reproduceable as it does it every time. Doesn't sound like it's coming from boiler circulator area but between dining room and kitchen area (15-20 feet away from boiler) but on the supply side of loop. I looked and don't see any vents of any sort but did find at the start of that loop it looks like somebody hit the pipe at some point and they installed a pipe clamp/plug thing (pic attached).


When I go to move everything I'll have other circulators to swap to try. 1st floor currently has about 160-180 linear feet of copper pipe and baseboards total not knowing how it runs through slab areas but seems pretty straight runs which would make sense. I'm also going to fix where that clamp is.
 

Last edited by lawrosa; 12-31-12 at 12:25 PM. Reason: Spaced out best I can for better reading....Whew!!
  #2  
Old 12-31-12, 11:51 AM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 18,183
Received 77 Votes on 69 Posts
Trooper is the Oil guy, I am sure he will be on shortly to answer your post. trooper....?....LOL

( just a little levity)




To the OP, possibly others don't mind but I stopped reading this after the first 10 sentences... Made me kind of dizzy....


( I was going to try to edit this some but I got lost and don't know where to start..)
 
  #3  
Old 12-31-12, 12:10 PM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 137
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
For some reason I can't add a space between lines. Like a hit enter, blank line, continue typing? It doesn't like my enter. What do I do?
 
  #4  
Old 12-31-12, 12:11 PM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 18,183
Received 77 Votes on 69 Posts
Are you posting from a home computer?
 
  #5  
Old 12-31-12, 12:14 PM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 137
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
yes. Old one died, just got this new one with windows 8 running 2 days ago. Many things to learn get used to on it. Not thrilled yet but couldn't beat price to replace dead one.
 
  #6  
Old 12-31-12, 12:17 PM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 137
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I couldn't get pictures on either. boiler pictures Photos by Sequoiasoon | Photobucket is the ones I took. not verified with other stuff but gauge says 23psi when at the 180F cut off with subsequent temp rise. Feel free to edit to make reading easier. Thanks!
 
  #7  
Old 12-31-12, 12:18 PM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 18,183
Received 77 Votes on 69 Posts
OK I will see what I can do......
 
  #8  
Old 12-31-12, 12:35 PM
S
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 137
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Much better, Thanks! Now why can't I do that? What settings need to be changed?
 
  #9  
Old 01-01-13, 10:11 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,538
Received 7 Votes on 5 Posts
Oil tank was replaced 10 years ago, 550 gal in ground, epoxied metal according to paperwork.
I don't care if it's got an inch of epoxy on the tank, get it the he77 out of the ground! It's nothing but a liability to your property (a BIG liability...from one who KNOWS!).

find out that the oil siphon/feed tube is 8" off bottom of tank leaving 60-ish gallons unusable
On the other hand, there is probably now about 7" of SLUDGE in the bottom of the tank. Do NOT push the pipe further into the tank!

I'd like to get rid of tankless coil instead of just leaving it in there with pipes cut. I know I need to get a blank plate for it (I presume it's available) with new gasket and hopefully prevent future leaks.
If it weren't leaking now, I would say just abandon the coil. There's no advantage to pulling the coil. As long as it has to come out to repair the gasket though, if you can source one, might as well put a blank on. Be VERY careful you don't snap a bolt off! Use "PB Blaster" on the nuts and bolts for like a week before you do the work. Give each a tiny spritz each day.

Would a tekmar version be better to install as opposed to the Beckett add on version? Would it be better to get a different aquastat or something else that integrates better with a tekmar version? How much effect do any of the the ODR's have on the system when the superstor calls for heat?
On the HM and HW+ I'm not totally dead-set against them, I simply have exceptions to the claim that they guarantee at least 10% savings. They will work and save some fuel, but ONLY WHEN APPROPRIATE.

I wouldn't say Tekmar is 'better', just different. The Beckett AquaSmart is a neat device. I like it. If you go with the Beckett, and want ODR, use the Beckett for that. Plug and play is where it's at.

My opinion on ODR with a conventional boiler is that it won't save a 'ton' of money... because one can only do the PARTIAL reset. Depending on system design, size of boiler, amount of installed radiation, etc, it might not even save ANY. Could happen!

If it were my system, I would probably go with the AquaSmart and try it as-is for a year or two using the HM built in (which uses heat calls from the thermostat to determine load, INDOOR feedback... which takes into account MORE sources of heat loss AND heat GAIN than an ODR can)
 
  #10  
Old 01-01-13, 10:22 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,538
Received 7 Votes on 5 Posts
Looks like maybe at one time that piece of BX might have been in contact with the pipe and electrolysis ate a hole in it... or maybe somebody put a nail or screw into it...

But yeah, that needs to be repaired properly and could well be the source of the whistle.
 
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: