HELP! New Grundfos circulator first floor cold

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Old 01-01-13, 05:37 PM
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HELP! New Grundfos circulator first floor cold

Yesterday we replaced my Taco 110 circulator pump with a much smaller Grundfos UP15 42f circulator. I have three floors about 2500 square feet and a basement all on one heating zone.

I noticed last night the top floors get hot first and it took over 20 minutes to get heat on the first floor. Previously the first floor would get hot very quickly and it is the area i am most interested in warming up most of the time.

IS this Grundfos strong enough? Is it because the Taco pulled water through the system and the Grundfos pushes it through? If so can the Grundfos be turned around to pull the water versus pushing it?

The circulator was installed in the exact same spot as the the Taco.
 
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Old 01-01-13, 05:40 PM
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oops forgot to ask

i forgot to ask too if the Taco 110 is just that much more powerful than the Grundfos?
 
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Old 01-01-13, 06:03 PM
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IS this Grundfos strong enough? Is it because the Taco pulled water through the system and the Grundfos pushes it through? If so can the Grundfos be turned around to pull the water versus pushing it?
I haven't compared the pump curves yet, but what you are describing sounds more like you didn't purge the air out of the zones after replacing the pump.

Did you? If so, how?

What do you mean when you ask about the Taco pulling and the Grundfos pushing?

The new pump should have been installed pumping in the same direction as the Taco. You didn't turn it around, did you?

Let's see some pictures of your system so we can better help you purge the air. CLEAR, IN FOCUS, WELL LIT, and generally NOT cell phone pics.
 
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Old 01-01-13, 06:05 PM
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Photos would help us. Why did your replace the Taco, and then also evidently reverse the flow?
 
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Old 01-01-13, 06:34 PM
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Yes, I was curious as to why the Taco was replaced as well... do tell please.

I just looked at the pump curves.

There is quite a bit of difference in the pump curves, but in the range a typical home would run, not enough difference to cause the problem you are having. The 110 has a very 'flat' curve, while the 15-42 is more vertical, since you aren't zoning, this shouldn't make the difference you are seeing.

I still think you have pipes full of air.

Are you running the new pump on HIGH speed?

You would have been better off using a Taco 007 ... or just repairing the 110, it's a good pump, a little heavy on the electric, but compared to the price of fuel the amount of electric the pump uses isn't all that much.
 
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Old 01-01-13, 07:12 PM
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?

i don't know if there is another speed control? i read somewhere that the taco pump pulled versus pushed? could that be the difference. The Taco pump was set up with the pump motor extended outward to the left of the pipe..

i thought we bled the pipes fairly well.. does bleeding the pipes remove the air... ?

How normally do first floor pipes heat first? Does pulling the water do that?
 
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Old 01-01-13, 07:33 PM
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i don't know if there is another speed control?
Isn't the 15-42F a 3-spd pump? Isn't there a speed lever on the top of the control box on the pump?

i read somewhere that the taco pump pulled versus pushed? could that be the difference
I don't know what you read, but all pumps move water in only one direction, in the in, and out the out.

The Taco pump was set up with the pump motor extended outward to the left of the pipe..
That's fine, but it has nothing to do with the direction that the pump moves the water.

The pump needs to be installed so that the water flow in the proper direction through the boiler.

does bleeding the pipes remove the air... ?
Yes, if it's done properly.

How normally do first floor pipes heat first? Does pulling the water do that?
I'm not sure what you are asking here... If you have only one zone then all the pipes should be getting hot about the same time. Has nothing to do with 'pulling' or pushing, it has to do with PUMPING, or just MOVING the hot water through the pipes.

You aren't answering the questions.

Why did your replace the Taco?
Will you post pictures or not? It's pretty much the only way we can help you any further.
 
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Old 01-02-13, 08:47 AM
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still confused

Sorry I don't have any pictures..

1. There are no speed controls .. this is not a three speed
2. I read that some pumps pull water and some push it... guess i was confused.
3. My furnace guy replaced the Taco because it was shot. Ran for about 20 years. I noticed how much smalled the grundfos was and was concerned about it. Is it that much less powerful and is that why it is taking longer?

I was led to believe the Taco and Grundfos would work about the same. Am I now running a much less powerful pump and is that impacting my heating time?
 
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Old 01-02-13, 08:52 AM
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also..

Maybe it has more to do with the hi lo settings.. My furnace guy (who does this stuff part time) set the settings to 180 and 120 with a differential at 20

would the pipes heat faster with higher settings.. . what would be optimal settings?
 
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Old 01-02-13, 09:20 AM
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Best to call your "furnace guy" back.
 
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Old 01-02-13, 09:28 AM
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ha?

Is this Grundfos 15-42P a comparable pump to the Taco 100 or not? The Taco seemed much bigger and heavier?
 
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Old 01-02-13, 09:34 AM
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I already answered your question about the pump. I explained about the pump curves and how the new pump would work in your system.

The modern pumps are more efficient than the older pumps.

I explained that you still have air in the lines.

No, it has nothing to do with 'pushing' or 'pulling'...

No, the hi/lo settings are fine, the heating pipes will not heat faster with a setting higher than 180, that is the correct setting.

You have air in your pipes that is preventing the proper flow of the hot water.

Call back the guy that installed the pump and tell him he needs to get the air out.
 
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Old 01-02-13, 11:05 AM
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Here is the data on the grundfos. It is not a three speed pump.

http://www.us.grundfos.com/Web/Downl...-UP-TL-107.PDF

Aside from air is it possible the pump was installed upside down? Look at the arrow on the body and tell us what way its pointing, toward boiler or away from boiler.

Then tell us if the pump is on the return or supply.

I am all for calling the guy back. Should be no charge under warranty.......Heck it was only yesterday, no?
 
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Old 01-02-13, 04:33 PM
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replaced the Taco because it was shot
Well, 'shot' isn't very descriptive... but whatever, it's done now.

OK... yes, I was looking at the wrong pump. The UPS is the three speed, you have the regular single speed " UP " model.

As I said earlier, the UP15-42F is not quite the pump that your 110 was, and it probably should have at least been replaced with a Taco 007... and an 010 would have been even a closer match to the 110.

BUT, and this is a big BUT ! No matter what, it should be working better than it is. If it takes 20 minutes for you to get heat in the radiators, you have an issue with air.

Again, the problem you are having right now is AIR. Get the air out of the system and it will heat up. It might not be quite as good as the 110 but it should at least WORK...

I don't know what kind of relationship you have with your guy, but if it were me, I would tell him to install the Taco 007 and properly bleed the air out of the system.
 
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Old 01-02-13, 05:45 PM
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OK, I just took a very close look at the various pump curves.

At first I thought you were using the UPS 3 spd version of the 15-42F and that pump on HIGH speed would have been 'OK'...

BUT

The standard UP15-42F which you say you now have is probably NOT a good match for your system.

However, in spite of that, I believe that you have TWO problems, and I'm going to say again that there is air in the system. The pump he installed would have at least 'worked' better than you say it is working... so there are TWO problems.

I mentioned the Taco 010... you don't need that one... it's too much pump.

The 007 would work fine.

I still think you should have just gotten the parts and rebuilt the 110 though. Do you still have the old pump?

Here is a pump curve chart with the curves for all four of the pumps that have been talked about. You can see that the 15-42 is not a good match for replacing the 110.

Name:  110 vs 15-42 vs 007 vs 010.jpg
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Old 01-02-13, 06:29 PM
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Sorry I don't have any pictures.
Borrow or buy a digital camera if you don't have one.
 
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