HELP! New Grundfos circulator first floor cold
#1
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HELP! New Grundfos circulator first floor cold
Yesterday we replaced my Taco 110 circulator pump with a much smaller Grundfos UP15 42f circulator. I have three floors about 2500 square feet and a basement all on one heating zone.
I noticed last night the top floors get hot first and it took over 20 minutes to get heat on the first floor. Previously the first floor would get hot very quickly and it is the area i am most interested in warming up most of the time.
IS this Grundfos strong enough? Is it because the Taco pulled water through the system and the Grundfos pushes it through? If so can the Grundfos be turned around to pull the water versus pushing it?
The circulator was installed in the exact same spot as the the Taco.
I noticed last night the top floors get hot first and it took over 20 minutes to get heat on the first floor. Previously the first floor would get hot very quickly and it is the area i am most interested in warming up most of the time.
IS this Grundfos strong enough? Is it because the Taco pulled water through the system and the Grundfos pushes it through? If so can the Grundfos be turned around to pull the water versus pushing it?
The circulator was installed in the exact same spot as the the Taco.
#3
IS this Grundfos strong enough? Is it because the Taco pulled water through the system and the Grundfos pushes it through? If so can the Grundfos be turned around to pull the water versus pushing it?
Did you? If so, how?
What do you mean when you ask about the Taco pulling and the Grundfos pushing?
The new pump should have been installed pumping in the same direction as the Taco. You didn't turn it around, did you?
Let's see some pictures of your system so we can better help you purge the air. CLEAR, IN FOCUS, WELL LIT, and generally NOT cell phone pics.
#4
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Photos would help us. Why did your replace the Taco, and then also evidently reverse the flow?
#5
Yes, I was curious as to why the Taco was replaced as well... do tell please.
I just looked at the pump curves.
There is quite a bit of difference in the pump curves, but in the range a typical home would run, not enough difference to cause the problem you are having. The 110 has a very 'flat' curve, while the 15-42 is more vertical, since you aren't zoning, this shouldn't make the difference you are seeing.
I still think you have pipes full of air.
Are you running the new pump on HIGH speed?
You would have been better off using a Taco 007 ... or just repairing the 110, it's a good pump, a little heavy on the electric, but compared to the price of fuel the amount of electric the pump uses isn't all that much.
I just looked at the pump curves.
There is quite a bit of difference in the pump curves, but in the range a typical home would run, not enough difference to cause the problem you are having. The 110 has a very 'flat' curve, while the 15-42 is more vertical, since you aren't zoning, this shouldn't make the difference you are seeing.
I still think you have pipes full of air.
Are you running the new pump on HIGH speed?
You would have been better off using a Taco 007 ... or just repairing the 110, it's a good pump, a little heavy on the electric, but compared to the price of fuel the amount of electric the pump uses isn't all that much.
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?
i don't know if there is another speed control? i read somewhere that the taco pump pulled versus pushed? could that be the difference. The Taco pump was set up with the pump motor extended outward to the left of the pipe..
i thought we bled the pipes fairly well.. does bleeding the pipes remove the air... ?
How normally do first floor pipes heat first? Does pulling the water do that?
i thought we bled the pipes fairly well.. does bleeding the pipes remove the air... ?
How normally do first floor pipes heat first? Does pulling the water do that?
#7
i don't know if there is another speed control?
i read somewhere that the taco pump pulled versus pushed? could that be the difference
The Taco pump was set up with the pump motor extended outward to the left of the pipe..
The pump needs to be installed so that the water flow in the proper direction through the boiler.
does bleeding the pipes remove the air... ?
How normally do first floor pipes heat first? Does pulling the water do that?
You aren't answering the questions.
Why did your replace the Taco?
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still confused
Sorry I don't have any pictures..
1. There are no speed controls .. this is not a three speed
2. I read that some pumps pull water and some push it... guess i was confused.
3. My furnace guy replaced the Taco because it was shot. Ran for about 20 years. I noticed how much smalled the grundfos was and was concerned about it. Is it that much less powerful and is that why it is taking longer?
I was led to believe the Taco and Grundfos would work about the same. Am I now running a much less powerful pump and is that impacting my heating time?
1. There are no speed controls .. this is not a three speed
2. I read that some pumps pull water and some push it... guess i was confused.
3. My furnace guy replaced the Taco because it was shot. Ran for about 20 years. I noticed how much smalled the grundfos was and was concerned about it. Is it that much less powerful and is that why it is taking longer?
I was led to believe the Taco and Grundfos would work about the same. Am I now running a much less powerful pump and is that impacting my heating time?
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also..
Maybe it has more to do with the hi lo settings.. My furnace guy (who does this stuff part time) set the settings to 180 and 120 with a differential at 20
would the pipes heat faster with higher settings.. . what would be optimal settings?
would the pipes heat faster with higher settings.. . what would be optimal settings?
#12
I already answered your question about the pump. I explained about the pump curves and how the new pump would work in your system.
The modern pumps are more efficient than the older pumps.
I explained that you still have air in the lines.
No, it has nothing to do with 'pushing' or 'pulling'...
No, the hi/lo settings are fine, the heating pipes will not heat faster with a setting higher than 180, that is the correct setting.
You have air in your pipes that is preventing the proper flow of the hot water.
Call back the guy that installed the pump and tell him he needs to get the air out.
The modern pumps are more efficient than the older pumps.
I explained that you still have air in the lines.
No, it has nothing to do with 'pushing' or 'pulling'...
No, the hi/lo settings are fine, the heating pipes will not heat faster with a setting higher than 180, that is the correct setting.
You have air in your pipes that is preventing the proper flow of the hot water.
Call back the guy that installed the pump and tell him he needs to get the air out.
#13
Here is the data on the grundfos. It is not a three speed pump.
http://www.us.grundfos.com/Web/Downl...-UP-TL-107.PDF
Aside from air is it possible the pump was installed upside down? Look at the arrow on the body and tell us what way its pointing, toward boiler or away from boiler.
Then tell us if the pump is on the return or supply.
I am all for calling the guy back. Should be no charge under warranty.......Heck it was only yesterday, no?
http://www.us.grundfos.com/Web/Downl...-UP-TL-107.PDF
Aside from air is it possible the pump was installed upside down? Look at the arrow on the body and tell us what way its pointing, toward boiler or away from boiler.
Then tell us if the pump is on the return or supply.
I am all for calling the guy back. Should be no charge under warranty.......Heck it was only yesterday, no?
#14
replaced the Taco because it was shot
OK... yes, I was looking at the wrong pump. The UPS is the three speed, you have the regular single speed " UP " model.
As I said earlier, the UP15-42F is not quite the pump that your 110 was, and it probably should have at least been replaced with a Taco 007... and an 010 would have been even a closer match to the 110.
BUT, and this is a big BUT ! No matter what, it should be working better than it is. If it takes 20 minutes for you to get heat in the radiators, you have an issue with air.
Again, the problem you are having right now is AIR. Get the air out of the system and it will heat up. It might not be quite as good as the 110 but it should at least WORK...
I don't know what kind of relationship you have with your guy, but if it were me, I would tell him to install the Taco 007 and properly bleed the air out of the system.
#15
OK, I just took a very close look at the various pump curves.
At first I thought you were using the UPS 3 spd version of the 15-42F and that pump on HIGH speed would have been 'OK'...
BUT
The standard UP15-42F which you say you now have is probably NOT a good match for your system.
However, in spite of that, I believe that you have TWO problems, and I'm going to say again that there is air in the system. The pump he installed would have at least 'worked' better than you say it is working... so there are TWO problems.
I mentioned the Taco 010... you don't need that one... it's too much pump.
The 007 would work fine.
I still think you should have just gotten the parts and rebuilt the 110 though. Do you still have the old pump?
Here is a pump curve chart with the curves for all four of the pumps that have been talked about. You can see that the 15-42 is not a good match for replacing the 110.
At first I thought you were using the UPS 3 spd version of the 15-42F and that pump on HIGH speed would have been 'OK'...
BUT
The standard UP15-42F which you say you now have is probably NOT a good match for your system.
However, in spite of that, I believe that you have TWO problems, and I'm going to say again that there is air in the system. The pump he installed would have at least 'worked' better than you say it is working... so there are TWO problems.
I mentioned the Taco 010... you don't need that one... it's too much pump.
The 007 would work fine.
I still think you should have just gotten the parts and rebuilt the 110 though. Do you still have the old pump?
Here is a pump curve chart with the curves for all four of the pumps that have been talked about. You can see that the 15-42 is not a good match for replacing the 110.