No heat on second floor after changing expansion tank

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Old 01-02-13, 07:13 PM
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No heat on second floor after changing expansion tank

Changed relief valve and expansion tank. Now no heat. Bleed about 20 gallons of water but still the same. 1st floor good, nothing on second floor.

I have an oil powered Peerless boiler WBV 04 150. Forced air with on demand hot water.

Changed the 2nd floor circulator pump (no zone valve).

2nd floor keeps calling heat, hot water barely reaches 2 feet above pump.

Now I'm afraid of hoses freezing in attic! 25 degrees outside!

Please help
 
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Old 01-02-13, 07:24 PM
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Air bound. Find air bleeders on second floor heat emitters. Bleeding 20 gal from the boiler will likely not help. Important: Tell us the pressure gauge reading.
 
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Old 01-02-13, 07:28 PM
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pressure gauge seems to be stuck on 15. I've never seen it go down while changing tank or relief valve. Will search for air bleeder in attic... stay tune
 
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Old 01-02-13, 07:35 PM
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don't see bleeders on second floor attic
 
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Old 01-02-13, 07:36 PM
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If your gauge is stuck on 15 psi, even when the system was depressurized - the gauge is shot. Need to replace it. Until then, we're flying blind. How did you know how much water to add for pressurization?

How did you wind up with "hoses" in an unheated attic? Sure, it's likely frozen.
 
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Old 01-02-13, 07:40 PM
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did not know. just opened valves back up. You're right! No way of knowing the pressure. orange hoses were installed when the house was built. builder used that instead of piping. From basement to attic.
 
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Old 01-02-13, 07:43 PM
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had plumber add antifreeze years ago. however, now that I bleed, a lot of that came out.
 
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Old 01-02-13, 07:53 PM
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obviously, it's late and there isn't anything open right now. Is there something I can do now?
 
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Old 01-02-13, 08:21 PM
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Shut off the valve before your cir. that is cold.Open the boiler drain next to it,with a hose on.But first if the feed way low by the other boiler drain has a flip handle bring it up.Put a bucket under the relief valve and then open the b.d. with hose.Better to blow the relief then the coil.
 
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Old 01-02-13, 08:33 PM
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sorry, I'm not a plumber. Please add more detail.
 
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Old 01-02-13, 08:44 PM
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do you want me to close the valve that I'm pointing to in the photo below, then open the drain? For how long? Not sure what you meant by "feed way low" or a "flip handle".

I'll have a bucket under the pressure valve.

thank you!
 
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Old 01-02-13, 08:45 PM
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I'am not good with details,maybe Troop or someone that is will help out.
 
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Old 01-02-13, 08:55 PM
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Yes close that one and open the b.d next to it, way down by your feet there is a feed valve flip that up slow if it has a lever.
 
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Old 01-02-13, 08:59 PM
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should I let it call for heat or turn the thermostat for the second floor off?
 
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Old 01-02-13, 09:02 PM
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You can do anything you want or not.
 
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Old 01-02-13, 09:18 PM
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Looks like you have check valves so it does not matter.If the hose gets warm call it good. For a little more pressure close the other valve by the other cir.,but shut unit off so you can hear things.Like I said, its better to dump the relief then freeze the coil.
 
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Old 01-02-13, 10:16 PM
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temperature went up on the second floor so I think that did it. I guess I'll be back if it goes down again. Should I be concerned with the pressure since the gauge isn't working?

nevertheless, thank you! Appreciate your time!
 
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Old 01-02-13, 10:18 PM
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Hay Mosessierra got to go, if that does not work out put all the valves as they were. Maybe crank heat on first floor,leave attic open and pull air filter out of second fl. if tight.Call for service in morning or now?Good luck. Hay good job. Gotta change that gauge.
 
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Old 01-03-13, 04:16 AM
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well, it was only temporary. 2nd floor heated up for 15 minutes. I'll pick up a gauge today.
'
 
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Old 01-03-13, 05:08 PM
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okay guys. put in a gauge. they didn't have the same one. It's longer, but it screwed in and it's reading a pressure and temperature. Pressure is 12 psi at about 170 degrees.

19 psi at 220 degrees.

Please help!
 
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Old 01-03-13, 10:18 PM
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You said that air handler is in the ATTIC ABOVE the second floor? So technically then, that is the THIRD FLOOR?

You need at least 0.431 PSI on the gauge for every FOOT of 'elevation' in the system PLUS 4 PSI of 'headroom'. With piping in the attic above the second floor you will need at LEAST 17 PSI in the system.

Try bringing the cold temperature up to say 17 PSI and see what that does.

I can't see much in them fuzzy outta focus dim light cell phone pics...

But I'm pretty sure that for starters you need to maintain a higher pressure in your system.
 
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Old 01-03-13, 10:23 PM
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do you want me to close the valve that I'm pointing to in the photo below, then open the drain?
Yes. That will force water to travel through the zone rather than short circuit through the boiler.

Pressure is 12 psi at about 170 degrees
This is too low. You should have like at LEAST 19 at 170.

19 psi at 220 degrees.
Why on earth is your boiler going to 220 degrees? Your aquastat should be set to 180. 220 is TOO HOT! You are above the boiling point! You do NOT want to make steam! Turn it down!
 
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Old 01-04-13, 04:30 PM
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I raised the pressure to 19 as you said. I lowered the aquastat to 180. what should be the low? The low is currently 170.

nothing has changed. Second floor still only goes to as high as 64 degrees. Could it be the circ pump the I installed. I originally thought it was the circ. so I replaced it. The original was a Taco 007 f5 12 (black) with the arrow pointing down. I replaced it with Taco 007 F5 (green) with the arrow pointing up. Did I do that wrong? I read that the old circ had arrows going against but...
 
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Old 01-04-13, 05:01 PM
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The original was a Taco 007 f5 12 (black) with the arrow pointing down. I replaced it with Taco 007 F5 (green) with the arrow pointing up. Did I do that wrong?
DOHHHHH!

I believe that yes, you did do that wrong! I'm amazed you aren't telling us that the boiler is rocking and rolling and making all kinds of weird noises now!

From what I can see in the pics, your pumps are on the return side of the system and MUST be flowing FROM the system INTO the boiler, so if you've got one pump flowing UP and AWAY from the boiler, it must be turned around.

Let us know when you get that pump turned around and we'll instruct further. Can't do anything more unless both pumps flow correct direction.

I read that the old circ had arrows going against but...
Huh? going against what? Can you show me where you read this?
 
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Old 01-04-13, 05:10 PM
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I knew that didn't sound right! boy how stupid. Anyway, I didn't read it, I saw it on youtube video from plumbingtutorials.com.

Plumbing Training - The Circulator Pump - YouTube

I'm going to put back the old one because I don't think there was anything wrong with the old one. I think I just didn't bleed correctly.
 
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Old 01-04-13, 05:27 PM
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I love Big Tony's videos!

I see where you got confuzzled though...

boy how stupid
No, not at all... you will never know how many times PROs flip 'em over... usually by accident, but still, it happens, a LOT!

Tony was talking about a more modern piping concept called 'pumping away', where the pumps are oriented differently, usually on the hot supply OUT of the boiler. In which case they would be pointing away from the boiler. He should have been a bit more careful about how he explained that because I can see that it would be too easy to misunderstand what he was talking about.

When REPLACING a pump in ANY system, ALWAYS install it to pump in the same direction as the old one.

So yeah, get that pump turned around, keep the pressure up to at least 17 PSI cold, and when that's done, we'll give you some pointers on how to bleed that upstairs loop using the valves you were pointing at.
 
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Old 01-04-13, 06:54 PM
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okay so I switch circ and faced it the right way, turned on the boiler, closed the valve guyold told me about, then drain water while keeping psi around 20. so far, so good. there's heat upstairs!

Now, any pointers? Anything I should do to really make sure all the air is out?

what's the ideal setting for the aquastat? Lo/hi?
 
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