Honeywell zone valves & Beacon Morris twin flow.

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Old 01-05-13, 07:25 AM
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Honeywell zone valves & Beacon Morris twin flow.

The replacement motors for the Honeywell V8043E valves from the early 80's, will they work on the new zone valves that you can replace the (head?) without replacing the entire zone valve. I have one valve that has been stuck open for about three years now. I tried to close it with the lever on the bottom of the valve and it did not want to close. Is that a mechanical problem or can these valves become stuck hard? I was going to replace the entire valve with the new style but am now thinking about just replacing the motor's in the valves I currently have. The way they are plumbed in they are not real easy to change the entire valve. I see pex has motors for $20.45.

Another question , I have three beacon morris twin flow heaters. Two of them have been junk for the last 10 to 15 years. They were bought in about 1983. Is the plumbing hook up for the K42 and the K84 the same as the heaters from the 80's? The new K42 and K84 have a different width dimension than the old ones. Is that because of the box on the side of it or do I need to cut a larger hole in my toe space of my cabinet?
 
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Old 01-05-13, 04:45 PM
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Jerome, I'm not real clear on what you are asking about the valves...

I think you are saying that you have the OLD style valves that have FOUR screws attaching the powerhead assembly to the valve body. Is that correct?

New style valves have TWO screws, and TWO locating 'pins'.

If so, you can use the new style powerhead, BUT you have to drain the system and install the CONVERSION KIT. The conversion kit has all the guts of the valve included so you will more or less be rebuilding the complete valve.


image courtesy pexsupply.com

40003918-006 - Honeywell 40003918-006 - 2 Way Powerhead Conversion Kit (Water)

Then just replace the whole powerhead:

40003916-026 - Honeywell 40003916-026 - Replacement Head for V8043E Zone Valves

But yes, you can try replacing just the motor if you like. First, try removing the motor and see if the valve will open and close. This should tell you if the motor is froze up.


For the B-M heaters, I would download the installation instructions and see what it says about mounting dimensions and what not...
 
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Old 01-06-13, 08:04 PM
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Yes I have the old style valves with the four screws. I was thinking about buying four motors, if they did not fix my problem I was going to buy four of the new valves. I was wanting to know if the same motors for the old valves would fit the new valves also. I would save them for spares. The old motors lasted twenty years, if I could use them for spares and I bought new valves I might not need the spares. I might only have twenty years left in me.

I will try and find the mounting instructions for the Beacon Morris. Thanks
 
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Old 01-06-13, 08:52 PM
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I was thinking about buying four motors, if they did not fix my problem I was going to buy four of the new valves. I was wanting to know if the same motors for the old valves would fit the new valves also
I can't say for sure if the new motors will fit the old valves, but I suspect that they will. Maybe our friend Grady will see this and comment, he has replaced more motors than GM did in the Vega.

When you say "new valves", you mean new powerhead, right? With a new powerhead and the conversion kit you basically have a new valve without all the pipe cutting and soldering...
 
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Old 01-07-13, 04:30 AM
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Honeywell zone valves and Beacon Morris Twin Flow

New valves (zone) would be a valve with the replaceable power head. So after looking at the links you sent the answer to my question might be no. Just install a new power head. It looks to me that Pex has a new power head and the conversion plate priced higher than a complete new valve that has the new power head. But I guess it might be worth it to not have to do all the work of cutting apart and soldering in the new valves. After looking a little closer at the Pex site it looks like Honeywell still sells the old style valve. I would have thought they would discontinue it and just build the new style. The parts look to be priced less than a new style zone valve if I read the numbers correctly.

How long has the conversion been available?
 

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Old 01-07-13, 07:18 AM
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After looking a little closer at the Pex site it looks like Honeywell still sells the old style valve.
Can you link to the web page that leads you to believe that the old valves are still being sold?

I don't know exactly how long the conversion kit has been available... long time though.
 
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Old 01-07-13, 06:13 PM
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I looked on the pex page and found Honeywell valves that have the exact same part number that my valves have so I assumed they are identical.
V8043E1012 - Honeywell V8043E1012 - 3/4" Sweat Zone Valve - PexSupply.com

V8043E1020 - Honeywell V8043E1020 - 1" Sweat Zone Valve (Connection = 18" Leads)

I assumed that this is the new valve with the replaceable head.

V8043E1061 - Honeywell V8043E1061 - 3/4" Sweat Connection Zone Valve, normally closed, 8 Cv (24v)

I don't know what the 8-CV- stands for. I know the -24V is the voltage. If I am way off feel free to educate me.
 
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Old 01-07-13, 06:26 PM
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don't know what the 8-CV- stands for
It's a 'flow coefficient'.

An 8 CV valve will flow 8 GPM with 1 PSI drop across the valve.

A 4 CV valve will flow only 4 GPM at 1 PSI drop.

The relationship is NOT linear. If you try to flow 8 GPM through a 4 CV valve you will NOT have 2 PSI of drop. There's a 'function' going on there... it will be MORE than 2 PSI, maybe even 4 PSI.

System designers sometimes design around these numbers but for the most part, they mean little to us when replacing a valve. (Although we don't intentionally want to use valves and fittings that will severely restrict flow in a system)

BUT, if you are just changing powerheads, it means nothing at all because the CV rating is all about the design of the valve BODY casting.

I assumed they are identical.
No. Any new valve you purchase will be the new design; two screws, two 'pins', removable head without draining water.
 
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Old 01-07-13, 06:39 PM
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One more thing I should mention...

CLOSE OFF PRESSURE

The lower Cv valves will hold off more pressure when closed, and the difference is significant.

If you use the higher Cv valves, even though they will flow more with less pressure drop, they will not hold closed with a very high pressure.

Our heating systems don't flow more than 4 GPM in a 3/4" pipe, so the 3.5 Cv units are fine.
 
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Old 01-08-13, 03:56 AM
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My valves have been bad for a few years now. The reason I have not changed them is I want to re-pipe the system between the two boilers that I use. At that time I could solder in the new valves with the replaceable heads. The electrical between the two boilers is the hold up. I am finally tired of running the system with bad valves and am going to fix the existing valves. When the valves went bad they stuck in the open position. I thought the valves were normally closed and when a zone called for heat the motor would open the valve. Do I have a problem that a new motor will not fix? One of the valves the gears were jumping, is that something that can be fixed mechanically? Or would that one need the power head with the adapter plate in an above post?

Above you mentioned that a 4-CV valve would hold back more pressure than a 8-CV valve. With pressure on both sides of the valve how is the valve holding back pressure? Or is it pump pressure that the valve is holding back??????
 
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Old 01-08-13, 06:39 AM
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Do I have a problem that a new motor will not fix? One of the valves the gears were jumping, is that something that can be fixed mechanically?
This sounds to me like the valves are just plain worn out... but without being there to inspect it's difficult to judge. Certainly 20 years is probably past their expected lifetime.

If it were my system I would probably go ahead and replace 'the works'... and if you are ripping into the piping anyway, I might opt to replace the whole valve. Yes, more work, but perhaps more economical.

Or is it pump pressure that the valve is holding back??????
"Differential" pressure... the 'static' pressure in the system, as you say, exists on both sides of the valve so is not the issue. It's the 'dynamic' pressure added to the system by the pump that is where the 'close off' would come into play.

For example, if one zone of three were open... if the differential pressure across a closed valve is greater than the spec, there will be leakage.

The pressure added to a system by the pump is for the most part not going to be enough to force a valve open anyway, rarely more than say 6 PSI or so... maybe 8, but that's a lot for a pump to add.
 
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