Purged air in hydronic system but one zone only have partial heat

Reply

  #1  
Old 01-07-13, 02:40 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 14
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Purged air in hydronic system but one zone only have partial heat

Hi Everyone!
My Zone 2 hydronic system has partial heat; I appreciate any helps/advices.
Please excuse me for not good in wording. Please let me know if you need more details.
Thank you very much for your help.

Tyler_T

I try to attach some photos but do not knowhow to do ithere.. I uploaded a sketch (basement Plan) and not sure it's uploaded.


Heating system layout (see attached Basement Plan)

Tyler T Photobucket album


  1. Ranch house, both zones provide heat to first floor.
  2. Zone 1 works ok: 4 baseboard heats and two radiators.
  3. Zone 2 has problem:
    Baseboard heat 1 in living room,
    Radiators 1 and 2 in kitchen,
    Radiator 3 in pantry.

    All three radiators are on concrete slab floor (pipes beneath and can’t access) only see return from Baseboard Heat 1, can’t tell return of Radiators 1, 2, and 3 (best guess is that the return of the radiator connect to the return of Zone 1).

Problem: in Zone 2:
  1. When call for heat to Zone 2, only Baseboard Heat 1 works. Pipe very hot at Point B (feed and return) but cool down quickly after Point B (Point B is right after the elbow). From Point C on, pipe is cold, totally cold on Radiators 1, 2, and 3. Circulator works.
  2. When open drain at Point D, hot water comes out (if air valves on the Radiators 1, 2, and 3 are remain shut)

History of problem:
  1. Live in this house 14 years, first time has this problem.
  2. Problem began with no heat to whole house because of dirty oil mixed with water. After bleeding the oil, burner fired up, but entire Zone 2 not working. Found out Zone Valve 2 defect and replaced. Then Zone 2 only works partially and heat up to Baseboard Heat 1.

Work done:
  1. Trial 1: Drain at boiler drain and drain both zones, refilled. Problem still there.
  2. Trial 2: Drain at Point D with Zone 2 call for heat, all bubble out, refilled. Problem still there.
  3. Trial 3: Drain at Point D with no call for heat, shut off feed at Shut-off Valve 2, open air release valve at Radiator 3, dirty water came all out. Refilled. Problem still there.

Data:
  1. Boiler: Emerald by Columbia
  2. Pressure: 15 psi, temperature 160
  3. Temperature range: 120 Min. – 160 Max.

Skill level:
soldering, using multi-meter
 

Last edited by NJT; 01-08-13 at 06:27 AM.
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 01-07-13, 04:40 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Hi Tyler, please take some pics of the piping as it returns to the boiler.
 
  #3  
Old 01-07-13, 10:55 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 14
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Hi NJ Trooper, thank you for your response. I added 3 more photos: 6., 7., and 8. Please let me know if you need more photos or questions to clarify.

Tyler

Tyler T Photobucket album
 

Last edited by NJT; 01-08-13 at 06:25 AM.
  #4  
Old 01-08-13, 06:29 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Thanks Tyler, I need to study these pics a bit... I do see at least one other 'issue' that we need to talk about... will write more this evening.
 
  #5  
Old 01-08-13, 07:24 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 14
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Hi NJ Trooper, I appreciate very much for looking into the problem.
Tyler
 
  #6  
Old 01-08-13, 08:34 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
In this pic, what do you mean "no return line" in the description? What are each of these pipes?



What is in what appears to be a pipe wrapped in what appears to be the "A" word ? hint, rhymes with "As best os" Isn't that a heating pipe? If it appears to be asbestos, DON'T EVEN TOUCH IT! LEAVE IT ALONE!

There's another up top, darker in color... what is that one?

Then the two copper lines hanging on the wire,

Then I presume that the bottom two steel lines are plumbing drains or something?
 
  #7  
Old 01-08-13, 08:50 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
What pray tell is the purpose of those two white trays? I hope you aren't going to tell me that it's to divert water that is dripping out of the flue pipe...

You know that the barometric damper (the flapper thing on the flue pipe) is supposed to be plumb and level, right?

Appears someone turned that pipe so they could use it to drain the water into that Rube Goldberg arrangement of 'aquaducts'.

Those yellow and red wires? Is that one of those 'ClearWave' devices that supposedly prevents scale buildup? How's that workin' out for ya?

I have to say I've looked at all the pics and can't make much sense of your jungle gym.
 
  #8  
Old 01-08-13, 10:32 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 14
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
This pic is misleading. Sorry about that.

This is Point C shown on the sketch. The wrapped and the left dark pipe are hot&cold water to the faucets of the laundry tub. It is wrapped in fiberglass insulation stuff.

The upper red pipe: to the left, it passes Point B (branch to baseboard heat 1), to Zone Valve 2; to the right, it goes to the drain spigot at point D, then goes through the wall to Radiators 1,2,&3.

The lower red pipe: water feed from water meter, to the left it connect to the vertical return pipe to the circulator.

The two black pipes through the wall to outside, are the oil and vent pipes.
 

Last edited by NJT; 01-09-13 at 06:48 AM.
  #9  
Old 01-08-13, 10:48 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 14
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
The top white tray is to collect dirt/smock (?) buildup from the damper. Yes, I have problem to make the flapper stay plumb/close. What I should do?

The lower white tray: to protect the aquastat below from water damage in case any water dripping (been there done that, caused me a lot of $ to replace it). It is at a very bad spot - under the pipes!

--Those yellow and red wires? Is that one of those 'ClearWave' devices that supposedly prevents scale buildup? How's that workin' out for ya?
Yes, different name,I think it works.

I have to say I've looked at all the pics and can't make much sense of your jungle gym.
Yes, many pipes were cut and left at spot, this house had been remodeled before we lived here. It was converted into two units and separate heat

I need to clear the piping in pic 2. (point B): the top pipe is the return from the baseboard heat1, but it is capped at the right (at the right side of the photo). The middle-pipe, to the left, it goes to zone valve 2. The lower pipe is feeder from the water meter at the right.
 

Last edited by NJT; 01-09-13 at 06:51 AM.
  #10  
Old 01-09-13, 07:08 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Tyler, there may be some kind of 'bug' that the 'font size' and 'color' tags don't seem to be working properly... or something... anyway, I just edited all that 'junk' out of your last two messages. I don't know why it is cluttering up and not working, but for now just use the default black text and font size.

OK, are the annotations on this drawing correct then?

Name:  Tyler_T point C.jpg
Views: 2177
Size:  49.9 KB

This is an inside corner and I suspect that 'point C' is misplaced on your diagram. I suspect that the area you have labeled as point C is to the left of this photo, and the capped return is not visible here. Is that right?
 
  #11  
Old 01-09-13, 07:17 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
The top white tray is to collect dirt/smock (?) buildup from the damper. Yes, I have problem to make the flapper stay plumb/close. What I should do?
This is the 'issue' that I mentioned when I first looked at your photos...

So no water... that's good. The flue pipe itself needs to be turned so that the 'tee' for the damper is coming out horizontally level. The damper then needs to be installed so that the 'axle' for the flapper is horizontal level. The face of the damper assembly needs to be made vertically plumb.

After this is done, the counterweight on the flapper door should be adjusted to provide a proper 'draft' through the boiler. This is supposed to be done using a 'draft gauge' instrument.
 
  #12  
Old 01-09-13, 07:19 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
The lower white tray: to protect the aquastat below from water damage in case any water dripping (been there done that, caused me a lot of $ to replace it). It is at a very bad spot - under the pipes!
OK... and you have corrected the source of the water leaking?

It always amazes me when I look at some installations... I scratch my head and wonder... " What WERE they thinking?" Why would they not look down and say... "oh, I better move this pipe/valve/whatever over a bit so that if it leaks it won't drip on the sensitive electronic devices below"
 
  #13  
Old 01-09-13, 07:25 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
different name,I think it works.
OK... if you're happy with it, then I'm happy! Let's just say that I'm a bit 'skeptical' of the 'science' involved with that method.
 
  #14  
Old 01-09-13, 07:45 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
I need to clear the piping in pic 2. (point B): the top pipe is the return from the baseboard heat1, but it is capped at the right (at the right side of the photo). The middle-pipe, to the left, it goes to zone valve 2. The lower pipe is feeder from the water meter at the right.
These annotations follow your description I believe?

Name:  Tyler_T point B.jpg
Views: 4671
Size:  50.7 KB
 
  #15  
Old 01-09-13, 07:50 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
In this pic, which is 'Point D', I believe the other pipes we are seeing are the domestic hot and cold piping to laundry tub, wash machine, etc... the angled pipe from top right to lower left appears to be a copper plumbing drain...

And the one pipe with the hose is the boiler supply line that goes into the slab to feed the three radiators?



I think I'm straight on all that stuff now.

So you say you can't find the return coming out of the slab and back to the boiler?

You've looked everywhere?
 
  #16  
Old 01-09-13, 05:21 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 14
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thank you for asking all these questions. I am putting the answeres as follows:



-- anyway, I just edited all that 'junk' out of your last two messages. I don't know why it is cluttering up and not working, but for now just use the default black text and font size.

Thanks and thanks for doing the editing, I don’t realize it is cluttering up. Maybe because I typed everything in MS Words then copy and paste to the forum space. I do so because I type slowly and if I type directly in the forum editor, it kicks me out, end up I have to type again…


All the annotations you put on the pics are correct! And you are correct that I misplaced on the sketch. Btw, how to paste pic on the response space (I tried but maybe the file is too big) and put annotations on the pic (Itried but it won’t let me do that? I know it’s a side tract, if you can show me how (“computer-phobia”, because I don’t have much luck with them)



-- In this pic, which is 'Point D', I believe the other pipes we are seeing are the domestic hot and cold piping to laundry tub, wash machine, etc... the angled pipe from top right to lower left appears to be a copper plumbing drain...

Yes to all, and in addition, the ½ “ up copper connects to the horiz. ¾” copper, to the right it goes to kitchen, to the left it goes directly to the 1” vertical to the boiler through a blue shut-off valve.

-- And the one pipe with the hose is the boiler supply line that goes into the slab to feed the three radiators?
Yes.

-- OK... and you have corrected the source of the water leaking?

Yes, the leak was fixed, the electronic was replaced, few years ago, that guy charged me $500 (well, he need to make a living…on me).


-- It always amazes me when I look at some installations... I scratch my head and wonder... " What WERE they thinking?" Why would they not look down and say... "oh, I better move this pipe/valve/whatever over a bit so that if it leaks it won't drip on the sensitive electronic devices below"

Eh…I am not capable to comments on “what WERE they thinking?”, haha…



-- So no water... that's good. The flue pipe itself needs to be turned so that the 'tee' for the damper is coming out horizontally level. The damper then needs to be installed so that the 'axle' for the flapper is horizontal level. The face of the damper assembly needs to be made vertically plumb.

After this is done, the counterweight on the flapper door should be adjusted to provide a proper 'draft' through the boiler. This is supposed to be done using a 'draft gauge' instrument.

Thanks for the “damper 101”, I think last year the chimney guy took it out and put it back without paying attention to this detail. I can realign the tee, move the counterweight a bit, but can’t do the “draft gauge” procedure.



-- So you say you can't find the return coming out of the slab and back to the boiler?

You've looked everywhere?

From the basement, there are three returns that I see:
1. Return from the zone 2 baseboard heat 1, capped on the other end (Looks like a loop by itself?)
2. Return from one zone 1 baseboard heat, but hook up to zone2 baseboard heat 1 return (at point C on my sketch)
3. Return from one zone 1 radiator to zone 1 return

Then the 1” return from zone 1 (1” pipe behind the light bulb in pic 8.) connects to the 1” vertical to boiler. My guess is: somewhere, the zone 2 return from the slab connects to this 1” return from zone 1 (?)

Thank you; Tyler
 
  #17  
Old 01-10-13, 03:59 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
I typed everything in MS Words then copy and paste to the forum space
Yes, that's it... the forum software doesn't understand all the formatting codes from Word. I think if you use Notepad for the same purpose, that no formatting codes will be added.

that guy charged me $500
Actually, that may not be THAT bad a price. His cost on the aquastat he replaced was probably about $125 or so, he was probably there what, maybe 3 hours? They probably charge $125 an hour labor. Yeah, I know prices are high these days... but you didn't get reamed all that bad really. I've heard plenty of stories of ppl getting charged over $500 just for the aquastat!

can’t do the “draft gauge” procedure.
No, not without a gauge. What you can do though is set the counterweight so that it pretty much stays just closed when the boiler is not running. Then run the boiler and as the chimney heats up you should see it start to pull open. You should be OK with that until your next burner service and ask the guy to check the draft when he's there.

My guess is: somewhere, the zone 2 return from the slab connects to this 1” return from zone 1 (?)
Is any of the zone 1 piping also in the slab? If not, I would think that somewhere there would have to be another pipe coming out of the slab... I mean there would HAVE to be, right?

OK, I've got an idea, and it may be a crazy one, but bear with me...

In this pic, point D, there are TWO hose connections. I know that one is the SUPPLY pipe to the rads on the slab in zone 2.

The OTHER one appears to be domestic water supply, right? Connected to laundry tub piping? You open it and house water comes out...

I'm trying to find a way to FORCE water through the radiators on the slab and push the air ahead of them. This is why I wanted to see all the return piping and such, to see if there were valves that could be used for this purpose.

It might be a good idea to see a diagram of zone 1 as well, since you believe that the radiators return might be tied into zone 1 return.

WHAT IF:

You will need a helper for this unless you are like a superhero with really long arms... because one person will be opening the drain, while the other is at point D and opening the water feed from the house INTO the drain at point D... unless there is another drain we can use though, this might not work.

1. You get a washing machine hose and connect one to the other.

2. CLOSE VALVE V2 because you want to block the flow going back, don't trust the zone valve for this. Also, do NOT close V2 MUSCLE tight, you don't need to stop it 100% and if you DO muscle it tight, those 'gate valves' have a bad habit of sticking closed, they you would be in a 'right pickle'. So just ease it closed.

3. I looked at the pics but don't see any drains near the boiler... but there has to be one on the boiler itself, right? The actual boiler drain is not a good choice though, because any AIR that we might be able to push through the pipes will NOT go down to the bottom of the boiler but instead float right back to the top of the boiler and back out into the system... from there it will probably end up back in the rads again...

Please examine all the piping and see if you can find any other DRAIN valves on any return piping that you suspect might be connected somehow to the drains on the slab rads. Hopefully you will find something we can use...

Are ya following where I'm going with this?
 
  #18  
Old 01-10-13, 11:59 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 14
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Hi NJ Trooper,
earlier I spent whole night typing, and... I hit "post quick reply" button...but got kick out and I don't see my reply!

I will redo tomorrow night (it's 2:00 am, got to go...). I got your idea. Haha! it's crazy but logical! Thank you very much for your help.
 
  #19  
Old 01-11-13, 08:23 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 14
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thank you for your help and your expertise.


-- His cost on the aquastat he replaced was probably about $125 or so, he was probably there what, maybe 3 hours?

Eh… the other way around, he charged $350 for the aquastat! and $150 for labor (about 1 hr, he had the part in his truck). Anyway, let by-gone be by-gone. I learn something the hard way.


-- “No, not without a gauge…”

Thank you for the instruction.


-- The OTHER one appears to be domestic water supply, right? Connected to laundry tub piping? You open it and house water comes out...

Yes, it is, but believe it or not, it is a second domestic supply to boiler. It runs all the way to the vertical return at boiler through the blue shut off valve. The laundry tub water is supplied by another pipe.



-- Please examine all the piping and see if you can find any other DRAIN valves on any return piping that you suspect might be connected somehow to the drains on the slab rads. Hopefully you will find something we can use...

No luck! The whole heating piping has only two drains. 1. drain at point D. 2. boiler drain itself, on the other side of the boiler, and yes, 6” above floor.



-- I'm trying to find a way to FORCE water through the radiators on the slab and push the air ahead of them. This is why I wanted to see all the return piping and such, to see if there were valves that could be used for this purpose.

-- It might be a good idea to see a diagram of zone 1 as well, since you believe that the radiators return might be tied into zone 1 return.

-- Is any of the zone 1 piping also in the slab? If not, I would think that somewhere there would have to be another pipe coming out of the slab... I mean there would HAVE to be, right?


I got your point. I uploaded two more pics (9. & 10.) showing sketch of the piping I can see and where they go. Zone 1 piping go to the ceiling of the finished basement portion, but not accessible (unless cutting the ceiling dry wall). They are not under slab, even in bedroom 3 (on slab),the piping is on the floor.


-- 2. CLOSE VALVE V2 because you want to block the flow going back, don't trust the zone valve for this. Also, do NOT close V2 MUSCLE tight, you don't need to stop it 100% and if you DO muscle it tight, those 'gate valves' have a bad habit of sticking closed, they you would be in a 'right pickle'. So just ease it closed.

I got that.



-- 1. You get a washing machine hose and connect one to the other.

Yes I can find a longer hose connect the laundry tub faucet/spigot to Drain D, and “FORCE water through the radiators on the slab and push the air ahead of them”. And open boiler drain. But this is what you concern about “…The actual boiler drain is not a good choice though…”


I brain storm and have this idea, hopefully you don’t think it’s that crazy (I mean whether it makes sense or not): How about do the reverse, hook up the boiler drain with domestic supply and open drain at D, shut off whatever valve needed, with circulator not running ?

Or, bottom line, cut pipe somewhere and add an additional drain? Zone 1 are 1” pipes and zone 2 are 3/4”. I don’t like soldering fittings to I” pipe but if got to do, got to do.




Tyler
 
  #20  
Old 01-11-13, 03:33 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Yes, it is, but believe it or not, it is a second domestic supply to boiler. It runs all the way to the vertical return at boiler through the blue shut off valve. The laundry tub water is supplied by another pipe.
Elaborate please... I'm not quite sure I understand... why in heck are there TWO fills going to the boiler?

I brain storm and have this idea, hopefully you don’t think it’s that crazy (I mean whether it makes sense or not): How about do the reverse, hook up the boiler drain with domestic supply and open drain at D, shut off whatever valve needed, with circulator not running ?
Tyler, you are no more crazy than I... that thought occurred to me last night after I signed off... came to me in a dream...

In order for this to work, all 'alternate' paths that the water can take must be stopped. There appears to be enough shutoff valves to do so. Think it through, follow what you can see of the water paths and why not give it a try?

Just remember that you need to allow the boiler to cool to 100°F or less before feeding in a ton of cold water.

Going to look at the other pics now...
 
  #21  
Old 01-11-13, 04:10 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
The idea of backfeeding the boiler drain and out the drain at point D would work but for one problem... the baseboard loop in the 'family room'.



Remembering that water will always flow from High pressure to Low pressure means that with point D valve being open, that would be your Low pressure point. Feeding into the boiler by either:

1. opening one of the FILL VALVES to the boiler (there would be no need to backfeed the boiler drain), or

2. backfeeding the boiler drain (not necessary)

Would cause water to find it's path to the drain at "D".

However, the aforementioned family room baseboard loop will present a problem, because at least SOME of the water going into the boiler will find it's way up that return, through the baseboard to the main, down the main toward point D valve.

I don't suppose (and perhaps I've asked already?) that there is any kind of shutoff valve on the family room baseboard run, is there?

Even so, it may be possible that only SOME of the water will go through that baseboard and there may be enough flow and pressure to back flow through the radiators and push the air blockage out.

I say try it... there's nothing to lose!

If you DID have to add a valve, I would say that the place to do it would be on one of the smaller pipes leading to the family room baseboards.
 
  #22  
Old 01-11-13, 04:18 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 14
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Hi NJ Trooper!


I mean this domestic supply runns all the way 30 some feet (3/4" pipe) to just use for feeding the boiler, mean while, there are some much shorter runs. in addition, there is another feed from the summer-winter hook up, and it's right there to the boiler. I guess this is installed later.


haha, it's a good feeling that the expert says I'm crazy, too! Any way, I am concern about the effectiveness of feeding from the boiler drain, because there is only one shut off valve in that many paths - the one after zone valve 2.
"all 'alternate' paths that the water can take must be stopped."
 
  #23  
Old 01-11-13, 04:25 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 14
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
1. opening one of the FILL VALVES to the boiler

I did that. and I drained the water for almost 30 minutes! all kind of bubbles, small, big, continous chain bubbles...until water came out from drain D is smooth for a while. BUT problem still there.

Got to go home, will catch-up in a couple hours, thanks.

Tyler
 

Last edited by Tyler_T; 01-11-13 at 04:29 PM. Reason: add note
  #24  
Old 01-11-13, 04:28 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
I don't think that you need to use the boiler drain to backfeed though... you can use the fill valve for the boiler because it's already connected!

The only 'alternate' path I can see in your drawing is through the family room baseboards... trace it out yourself, you will see that if you feed water into the boiler there are only TWO paths that the water can take (if both zone valves and V2 are closed).

1. Backwards through the family room baseboard to the main, to the open drain at "D".

2. Backwards through the 'unknown' return connection to the rads on the slab, and out drain at "D".
 
  #25  
Old 01-11-13, 04:30 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Are you absolutely certain that the other drain at "D" is not in fact the return from the rads on slab? You can clearly see that it is connected to the potable domestic supply in the home?
 
  #26  
Old 01-11-13, 04:39 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 14
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Yes, good to know when you point it out the two backwards paths.
Oh when I did that (use fill valve for the boiler), I open both the zone valve 2 and V2. is it a problem?
 
  #27  
Old 01-11-13, 04:50 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 14
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Absolutely not the return from the rads on slab, and it is not connected to the potable domestic supply. this 3/4" pipe has the drain D, goes into the wall at E (few feet to the first rad), the other end connects to the fami baseboard and continues to V2 and zone valve 2.
 
  #28  
Old 01-11-13, 05:09 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Oh when I did that (use fill valve for the boiler), I open both the zone valve 2 and V2. is it a problem?
If you were only adding water to the boiler, no, not a problem. What we are talking about is not filling the boiler but trying to push the air out of the pipes in the slab... different scenario!
 
  #29  
Old 01-11-13, 08:08 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 14
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
So... I have tried my best, and air is still in the three rads loop. I can't even tell whether it's series or parallel.
 
  #30  
Old 01-12-13, 09:00 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Tyler, sorry to say that I'm plumb out of ideas... wish I didn't have to say this!

Just to recap:

You are saying that you tried backfeeding the loops as we have discussed and are still unable to get heat in those rads?

You could try adding a valve on that family room baseboard run as mentioned. Then there would be only ONE path the water could take, through the air bound rads on the slab...

No guarantees though... but when all else fails, gotta try something, right?
 
  #31  
Old 01-12-13, 03:29 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 14
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thank you for not giving up on me (soon? )

[SIZE=3][/SIZE]Here’s what I didthis morning.
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]1. Turn off the boiler (off switch)
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]2. close valve V2
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]3. open drain D
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]4. drain, water came out and stop soon
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]5. open feed to boiler all the way, pressure to max (80 psi) water came out fromD in this pattern: gravity flow, then bubbles, big bubbles, and giant bubbles like volcano larvaspit out, then slow down, then water dripping almost to stop, then graduallypick up weak gravity flow then repeat the cycle (approx 2 or 3 minutes) Iwatched it for more than 1 hour! (I also video taped) (water bill will be skyrocking this month!)
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]6. after more than 1 hour, open V2, continue drain at D for 5 minutes
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]7. Stop feed, let water continue out at Dand reduce pressure to 15 psi
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]8. call for heat zone 2, strong pressureflow out at D, bleed all the rads water at bleed warm I mean in zone two!)
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]9. Temp reach 160 boiler off, butcirculator continues running.
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]10. then… THAT’S IT! Those rads remaincold! Only zone 2 fami baseboard hot as usual
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]Is there anyloophole in this trial? If not then I am thinking adding a valve on the return ofthe zone 2 Fami baseboard and zone 1 fami baseboard (both connect to return atpoint B as discussed.
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: