New Boiler/Aquastat install: Boiler won't turn off @ Hi Limit! Help!

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Old 01-16-13, 06:49 AM
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Exclamation New Boiler/Aquastat install: Boiler won't turn off @ Hi Limit! Help!

I am in a bit of a tight spot, my boiler was very old and stopped working Saturday so I decided it was time to replace it. I'm fairly mechanical, but never did one before and my friend who's a pipe fitter did all the plumbing with a bit of help from some plumbers. Everything got install and looks pretty good, but the electrical has killed me. I bought the boiler as a package from Home Depot, I know I know I should have got something better, but I just have a small house and it was an easy replacement for my current unit. It took me some time to figure out the wiring diagram and got it L1 L2 are the incoming lines, the T's are the thermostat controls the B1, B2 are burner, C1, C2 circulator...stop me if I'm wrong here. Anyways I messed around for a minute, got the boiler on and it continued right past the 180 hi limit and wasn't stopping at 220 set so I shut down. I have re-wired a couple times thinking maybe I had some wrong, but that can't be right because then it won't even turn on. My other issue is I don't know if the red wire from the burner is in the correct spot, B1, which seems like that should be the black hot burner wire. Please help!! Posted pics of the old setup and new so far. New aquastat is a Honeywell L7224. In the picture of the old on the thermostat wires (both sm. brown wires) were in the T labels and the incoming Lines were in the Line 1,2 and those are the only things I have taken off. Also will flash Err then 2 sometimes, which is hard to tell because it's upside down, but I believe that means Ecom Fault check enviracom wiring.
 
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Old 01-16-13, 07:13 AM
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What is the wire on ZC for? Where is it to/from?

Are you certain that the temperature sensor is fully inserted into the 'well'? and that the boiler is FULL of water?

You need to tell us the make/model of the boiler.
 
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Old 01-16-13, 07:20 AM
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The boiler itself is a Slant/Fin Liberty II LD30PT. It should be full of water, we opened the valves to let well water into the boiler then connected a hose to the baseboard going into the boiler and purged any air out we could, kept going on and off until the air vents no longer release air, that should meant he boiler is full right? The black going into ZC in the picture is actually from the burner which it came in that spot, like I said it was wired wacky. I moved that wire to the B1 spot which allowed the boiler to turn on, but then I don't know where the red goes in the aquastat. It's a single zone home if that matters.
 
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Old 01-16-13, 07:32 AM
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Old 01-16-13, 07:41 AM
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I sent an electrician some images and he was trying to give me a hand, initially he thought I had the low level in where the hi level should be, but then he said it looks like that piece is pre-wired. I called Honeywell to ask and they wanted my license number to ask any questions.
 
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Old 01-16-13, 08:20 AM
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Followed the red wire to the burner which says it's the limit. So I'm thinking the black burner wire should be in B1, but still where should red be wired? Should it be connected to the black burner wire in the terminal?
 
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Old 01-16-13, 09:48 AM
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I'm hesitant to provide information on where the wires should go... because when/if you blow the thing up you will blame me...

No, the BLACK wire does NOT go on ZC.

On the burner primary control (that's the control on the burner) is the black wire the one that is going to L1 on that control?

If so, that wire goes to L1 , 120VAC HOT , on the aquastat.

The RED wire which comes from the LIMIT control goes to B1 in the aquastat.

With all the swapping of wires that you've done, you may already have blown up a control... so don't blame me if you smoke it! deal?
 
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Old 01-16-13, 09:56 AM
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What did you do, buy the 'floor model' ?

This should not have come from the factory with messed up wiring.
 
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Old 01-16-13, 05:29 PM
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Ok so here's the scoop it's all figured out for future reference. I had a few issues going on and there was a reason no electricians or plumbers could figure it out from pictures or schematics. The "newfangled" digital controllers...or was is the boiler, either way there was a black, white and red wire which left me confused because I've only seen two and same with most of them. The black wire is void, capped it and left it sitting. The unit did come wired incorrectly from the factory, that black wire should not have been connected much less to the L1, which is of course my line power. So I fixed the factory wiring, but the unit had a problem with the aquastat, leaving me with the error 2 message. So regardless of me fixing it it was never going to turn back on. They swapped it free of charge, brought the new one home, installed it and perfect! So if you have never installed a digital controller, just remember there may be an additional wire from the burner to the controller and the red wire was the power supply. Also threw in the shut off switch on the junction box for good measure. Now if I could just get the rest of my baseboard purged so the back of the house would heat up I'd be golden!
 
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Old 01-16-13, 05:50 PM
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I've wired quite a few systems with the new-fangled digital controls, and they DO use three wires from the aquastat to the primary control.

If you look at, and understand the schematic diagrams in the manual which Mike linked to, you will see that this is true.

The 'new-fangled' oil primary controls have a CONSTANT 120VAC going to them on the L1 terminal on the PRIMARY control. This is so that they can remain powered to perform the 'motor on' and 'valve off' delays which ALL new boilers use.

The 'extra' wire is the signal for the primary control to do it's thing... fire the burner.

In this case, the B1 terminal (red wire) in the aquastat goes to the LIMIT terminal on the primary.

You CAN make the system 'work' otherwise, but you will be losing the benefit of the motor on and valve off delays.

But, if you are satisfied that it's working OK, then be happy and enjoy what you accomplished.
 
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Old 01-16-13, 05:55 PM
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Let me ask one more question though...

What PRIMARY control is actually installed on the burner itself?

What I stated above will only apply if you have an R7184B or Beckett Genesis primary control.

Only if you have the R7184A or R8184 primary control should you NOT wire a HOT to the primary.

THAT is where the difference lies.
 
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Old 01-16-13, 06:57 PM
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Fbone I should ding you for not having a box clamp on that romex L1/L2 coming into the L7224. I'll let you go this time, but don't let it happen again! LOL

Whoops, I just noticed it's also not in conduit!
 
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Old 01-16-13, 07:36 PM
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@ zoesdad, that really glared out at me too.. lol. "Oy !"

@ Fbone.. get someone to make you up a length of bx with box connector (dont forget the little red "wire guards" !) to run from your new shutoff switch/junction box to the boiler. If someone bumps into that wire as-is, it could cause havoc in the control box there (or zap someone dead).
Trooper's comment about the extra wire for the valve-on delay is valid (if its the primary mentioned), its a good idea to have the motor blower start getting the air stack moving before the oil valve opens.. keeps the burn chamber cleaner too (the oil pump and air flow are up to speed before the oil valve opens making for instant atomization)
 
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Old 01-18-13, 08:44 AM
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Okay, okay don't hate! I'm kidding, I did wire in a shutoff where the junction box is, so that's fixed and I did put conduit over the lines (I had tried to bend the previous in a pipe bender, but it kinked). Those problems are gone and the new controller is not digital it's got the rotary knobs (Honeywell L8124) so would it still be useful to have all three wires since it is a Beckett Genesis burner? The red is in B1 (from limit on the burner) and the white in B2 currently so which would the black burner wire go to in the controller?

I will ask another silly question, my home is a ranch fairly small. If I am running just a shower or just a sink without anything else should the hot water pressure be weak? Seems to be quite a bit worse than the old one, which was bad. The information says tankless heater is 3.2 or 3.4 GPM, is that unusually weak?

Sorry about the dings guys lol, I was just trying to make sure I could get it running since it was 4 degrees! Thanks for all the help!
 
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Old 01-18-13, 10:51 AM
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Hi FBone

Im a newbie and you definitely have to take anything I say with a grain of salt, but it seems to me a new tankless coil should not affect your hot water pressure because it is new with no buildup, and hence should not restrict the water flow I think. But it could affect the water temperature that you previously had I think.

Your manual that Mike posted says something about a flow control valve for the hot water. (For some reason I cant see the figures in that manual). But it seems to me if there is a flow control valve, it could affect your hot water pressure. Was wondering if there is such a valve maybe its set too low? But I guess one would assume if you set the pressure higher you would have less contact time in the coil and hence cooler water? But as I said Im a newbie and could be going off on a tangent.

Good thing is there are people with real expertise here (plumbing and everything) so I hope they can help you.
 
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Old 01-18-13, 03:40 PM
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the new controller is not digital it's got the rotary knobs (Honeywell L8124) so would it still be useful to have all three wires since it is a Beckett Genesis burner? The red is in B1 (from limit on the burner) and the white in B2 currently so which would the black burner wire go to in the controller?
Yes, still useful. As others have said, having the motor spin up to speed and establish airflow and full oil pressure before lighting makes for cleaner starts, less soot and other crud. Letting the flame shut off and have the air flow on for a period of time after the flame stops helps to cool off the nozzle so there are no 'after-drips' from the oil in the nozzle line expanding and dripping... and also takes the rest of the 'exhaust' up and out of the boiler also causing it to stay cleaner, longer.

Take a look at your primary burner control... you will see a terminal marked " L1 ". As I said before, that L1 should be wired to 120VAC HOT so that the control has power at all times.

The RED wire from B1 going to the LIMIT on the primary is correct.

The WHITE wire from B2 going to to L2 on the primary is correct.

If I am running just a shower or just a sink without anything else should the hot water pressure be weak? Seems to be quite a bit worse than the old one, which was bad. The information says tankless heater is 3.2 or 3.4 GPM, is that unusually weak?
As ZD said, you should have better flow with the new coil. Without seeing the setup, can't really guess at a reason for 'low pressure' in the domestic.
 
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Old 01-19-13, 10:18 AM
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okay well here was pictures from when we finished. i think we did ok considering we had no idea what we were doing and it was from the 70s so we tried to get more code with it. any ideas for the hot water flow?
 
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Old 01-19-13, 10:59 AM
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hi FBone -

As I said, I know nothing!lol

I try to follow the piping in the pictures on this forum and I can't even follow it sometimes when some of the pro's explain what they see.

But is there any chance that the pressure regulating valve for you boiler make-up supply is also feeding the supply to your coil? It looks that way to me, but obviously since I know d-squat that could be certainly wrong.

If the piping is that way, I would think that would be wrong.

But if that is all nonsense, then ... never mind!LOL



Just looked again - and now it looks right! (I think). I'm giving up!!!lol

I'm sure the pro's could read your pic's in a matter of secs.
 

Last edited by zoesdad; 01-19-13 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 01-19-13, 11:27 AM
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Hi FBone -

Tired of me? Want me to shut up? NO way!!

In picture number 2, very top edge, is that a flow control valve for the supply to the coil? I guess you would have messed with that if it is, and you could?

OK now I really will shut up!LOL

(Good luck!)
 
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Old 01-19-13, 08:49 PM
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In picture number 2, very top edge, is that a flow control valve for the supply to the coil? I guess you would have messed with that if it is, and you could?
By Golly! Dad, yer gettin' smarter every day! Good call!

FBone, that Watts 9D is in the wrong place.

It's purpose is to prevent backflow from the boiler into the domestic piping.

You've got it in-line with the domestic piping and it would very well be the problem with low flow.

It needs to be installed on the line to the boiler and ONLY to the boiler...

Pic to follow...
 
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Old 01-19-13, 08:55 PM
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Obviously it won't fit, so you will need to do some repiping.

I would say move the pressure reducing valve around the bend to the other pipe and put the backflow preventer where the reducing valve is now.
 
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Old 01-19-13, 08:58 PM
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By Golly! Dad, yer gettin' smarter every day! Good call!



Ahhh shucks! Weren't nothin!! lol
 
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Old 01-19-13, 09:02 PM
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OK... I think I see something else a problem.

I looked at the two auto air valves on the top of the boiler and said... WTH? Why two?

Then, I saw a pressure relief valve on the DOMESTIC COIL... and said WTH? why is that there?

Then, I looked at the boiler for a pressure relief valve on it, and did not see one.

Where is the pressure relief valve on the boiler?

-----------------------

How will you open the swing door on the boiler with that pipe in the way?

-----------------------

Where is the barometric damper on the flue pipe?
 
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Old 01-19-13, 09:12 PM
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Old 01-19-13, 10:13 PM
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OK then... maybe what I think is a second air vent is actually the relief valve?

The one on the right is OBVIOUSLY an air vent...

The one on the left, that must be a relief valve then? My eyes are old, the pics are small...

If that IS a relief valve, you should pipe it over and down to within 6" of the floor.
 
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