How to wire an indirect water heater to a Honeywell Zone 8043F Valve

Closed Thread

  #1  
Old 02-25-13, 12:46 PM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 26
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
How to wire an indirect water heater to a Honeywell Zone 8043F Valve

Hi All,
i have a separate thread on Plumbing/Water heaters section about replacing an Amtrol indirect water heater
http://www.doityourself.com/forum/wa...eak-issue.html
which i already completed but i think i did the wiring wrong.
Previously i had a smart control on indirect water heater so there were 4 cables going out from the heater:2 to zone valve and 2 to the boiler. And the boiler ones were connecting to 2 other cables that are comming from transformer.

When i put the new one in which has a dial control instead of the smart one, i directly connect 2 wires to the zone valve and nothing is going to the boiler
When the boiler turned OFF, the valve operates properly (when i turn the dial to set the temperature higher than the temp in tank, it opens the valve, when i set the temperature below the tank temperature.)
but when the boiler is on, it directly opens the zone valve.
Not to damage the tank, i set my boiler temp to 140F to not to damage the tank because of overheating

I think there is something wrong on this. I read some posts and seems like one cable from the thermostat on the tank must go to boiler. Does it matter which one? and Previously there were 2 cables going to boiler what meets with the transformer cables. does it matter to which one to connect to on the cables on the boiler side?

I have teledyne laars mighty term HH 0325 boiler, my old tank was
WH-7LDW
and my new tank is Amtrol WHS-80Z if it matters

I am not at home at the moment, but i could provide more pictures tonight.
 

Last edited by burton123; 02-25-13 at 12:47 PM. Reason: typo
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 02-25-13, 03:57 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 3 Votes on 2 Posts
I think there is something wrong on this.
Yes... me too.

I can't understand from your description how you have it wired.

Here's the manual:

http://www.amtrol.com/media/document...LERMATE_IO.pdf

Let's start with how the OLD tank with the smart control was wired:

There should be an external 24VAC transformer somewhere that was wired to the WHITE and BLACK wires from the Amtrol.

I also would think that the two BLUE wires were used. One of the blue wires was directly connected to the zone valve (either TH or TR terminal).

The OTHER BLUE wire was going to the transformer and the OTHER wire from the transformer was going to the zone valve (either TH or TR terminal).

Is this correct so far?

The two ENDSWITCH wires on the zone valve were going to the boiler... right?

====================

With the NEW tank, there are only two connections. ONE of those goes to the TH or TR terminal on the zone valve. The OTHER of those goes to one terminal of the transformer. The OTHER terminal of the transformer goes to the OTHER terminal of the zone valve (either TH or TR).

The ENDSWITCH terminals on the zone valve should still go to the boiler.

Please explain in more detail how you have this wired...
 
  #3  
Old 02-25-13, 05:02 PM
R
Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 421
Received 3 Votes on 3 Posts
Do you still have the Smart Control from the old tank? You might consider using it on the new tank.
 
  #4  
Old 02-25-13, 05:03 PM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 26
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Hi NJ Trooper, thanks for the response:
So, so at the latest pictures that i post here http://www.doityourself.com/forum/wa...eak-issue.htmlare the old heaters controller inside view.

THose black and white cables in that smart control was wired to the transformer above the boiler, but there were 3 cables in those connections (1 from Transformer, 1 from boilermate and 1 from inside the boiler), so maybe same transformer is feeding both Amtrol and boiler ?

The orange wires were used in amtrol to wire it to zone valve but there was no connection to transformer. I am not sure which port it was connected(endswitch vs TH/TR) , but i can check tonight when i go to home. ALso when i measure those cables with voltmeter before connecting, it was 120V AC on those cables if it helps.

Also the issue that i had now was already a problem when i bought the house last year that with the old system that my domestic hot water was always ~170F so maybe i always had the wrong wiring issue. That could be the reason that toasted my boiler and I didnt fix it due to some personal problems.

For the endswitch, there was one going to boiler but it could be from the circulator pump also.

I think it will be better to check and note everything tonight and post them properly.


With the new one, nothing is connected to the transformer, i just connected it to the cables on the zone valve where previously orange cables are connected to I know now that it was a bad idea
 
  #5  
Old 02-25-13, 05:08 PM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 26
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I do... i took it out with the heat exchanger on Saturday.
But people say that they are a little bit problematic and i dont know whether it was working properly or not.

I always thought that the smart controller was the problem but if we conclude that previously the wiring was the root cause of 170F DHW, i can give it a try with the correct wiring
 
  #6  
Old 02-25-13, 05:20 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 3 Votes on 2 Posts
Yeah, I would not re-use the smart control myself...

I don't understand why you don't seem to have gotten any replies on the other forum... maybe they saw what I saw and didn't want to get involved. It seems that your system is a home-grown hodge-podge mess of mistakes... Just sayin', and I'm not gonna get into it any further than that.

I'll see if I can make some sense of the wiring later...
 
  #7  
Old 02-25-13, 05:25 PM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 26
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I know it is not properly installed and it is my project for this summer to replump properly.
I want a nice clean installation, my utility room is 40sqft and i can barely walk in and last year to solder a dielectric union, i needed to cut a drywall and access from there.


BTW You just saw half of my system there are pool heat exchangers, spa heat
exchangers, 5 underfloor heating with circulator pumpped zones, 6 zone valves with main pump etc...
 
  #8  
Old 02-25-13, 11:02 PM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 26
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
so NJ Trooper, here is the update, I will try the explain as best i can. Lets number the bottom row as 123;
For both cases the end switch wires are going to boiler.
Previously with the old smart controller
black and white cables go to transformer
the orange cables from the smart controller go to 12_ on zone valve
1_3 on the zone valve go to the transformer
With the current setup
the 2 cables from Amtrol controller goes to 12_
1_3 goes to the transformer
Nothing from the amtrol goes to transformer
Picture:
 
  #9  
Old 02-25-13, 11:19 PM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 26
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
also for replacement i have
powerhead conversion kit
replacement motor
power head
zone valve
So if you want me to change any of above pieces, i can replace it.
 
  #10  
Old 02-26-13, 05:44 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 3 Votes on 2 Posts
Unless the valve isn't working, there's no point in replacing anything at this time.

From your description, you have one half wired correctly... very basically, the two wires from the OLD AMTROL will be replaced by the two wires from the NEW AMTROL.

You should have just left the endswitch wires to the boiler where they were... ENDSWITCH wires to boiler.
 
  #11  
Old 02-26-13, 07:49 AM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 26
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
NJ Trooper,

So yes, that is what i did. I just replace the wires from old amtrol to zone valve to the ones that are from the new amtrol to the zone valve. And the transformer cable seems like merging at the same port (left bottom) on the zone valve.

So here is my question, is that normal to measure 120V AC on the cables that are going to amtrol?

Also the same behavior was consistent with the old Amtrol tak; As long as the boiler is up and running valve is open regardless of the controller is satisfied or not. The only think i can do is turn on and of the valve via controller. Both tanks never closes the zone valve. If you turn of the boiler, then the valve operates properly.

Do do you know where do i need to troubleshoot? i ve read in one of the forum members that they had a bad wire issue. Is that worth to replace the wires?
 
  #12  
Old 02-26-13, 08:12 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 3 Votes on 2 Posts
Sorry, I missed that bit about the 120VAC ...

What is the full model number of the zone valve you are using?

I don't think you want 120VAC on the Amtrol control. I thought you said it was wired through a transformer?
 
  #13  
Old 02-26-13, 08:41 AM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 26
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
According to face place of Amtrol it seems OK, but i dont have the pictures of other side of the zone valve where the full model name is written and i am at work
I will check at lunch time and post here.
THere is a box that is written with a board marker "24V transformer" where the cables to the zone valve are coming from but who knows what is in it. I never measured it.





3L95L25Gf5Ked27e44d010fcbf815481_zpse91b95f4.jpg[/IMG]
 
  #14  
Old 02-26-13, 12:17 PM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 26
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
hmm now it is interesting...

V8043F 1051 24V 50/60CY 32AMP


 
  #15  
Old 02-26-13, 12:47 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 3 Votes on 2 Posts
And if you put 120VAC on that valve, it would/should have let the smoke out of it... and possibly tripped a breaker...

Where exactly were you measuring 120VAC ... FROM / TO ?

From what I've seen, electricity is one of your possible 'nightmares'... for example:



One could easily swap a hot and neutral here... and this could lead to stray 120VAC HOT being applied to various parts of the system.
 
  #16  
Old 02-26-13, 12:59 PM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 26
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
the 2 cables that goes to Amtrol controller. I will measure and take some pictures tonight again. But Amtrol itself says 115V and those are the only 2 cables that goes to Amtrol so i thought it was OK

I couldnt find the picture but there is a place where 10 end switch cables are come together and I know my system sucks at the moment That is why i want to do the entire plumbing in boiler room from scratch. This time i want to use some zone controllers for a cleaner setup.

As i said, it is 40sqft and i can barely walk in, and on the picture you posted, that dielectric union is the one that i replaced, where i needed to cut the wall to reach it. On Bottom right it is noticable.
 
  #17  
Old 02-26-13, 01:06 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 3 Votes on 2 Posts
Ohhh... those wires with the wire nutz and duct tape are not 120VAC?

It looked to me as if someone had used 'zip cord' or 'lamp cord' to wire up something...

OK, so if those are low voltage, it's not as bad as I thought. As long as there are no 120VAC connections that are done like that!
 
  #18  
Old 02-26-13, 01:12 PM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 26
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I bet there are. Especially on that zone valve. Because 2 nights ago, I was trying to check the lever whether the zone is open or not and electrical shocked strongly... I am again back at work and will try to measure it again and take some pictures tonight.
 
  #19  
Old 02-26-13, 07:10 PM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 26
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
i measured 12_ (i am using the same numbers as the picture that shows the cables of the zone valve) that are the cables coming from AMTROL controller and is 120V

hmm... any advice?

 
  #20  
Old 02-26-13, 07:43 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 3 Votes on 2 Posts
i measured 12_ (i am using the same numbers as the picture that shows the cables of the zone valve) that are the cables coming from AMTROL controller and is 120V
I'm sorry Burton, but I have no idea what you are trying to say, or what that meter is measuring!

hmm... any advice?
Not trying to be a wizeazz, but I think you are in over your head and should seek professional help. Just my view from where I'm sitting...
 
  #21  
Old 02-26-13, 07:54 PM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 26
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
i measured the zone valve ports where the amtrol controller cables are going in.
The 12_ coding was like the coding that i did below on the picture where it shows the zone valve ports .
 
  #22  
Old 02-27-13, 06:52 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 3 Votes on 2 Posts
If you are reading 120VAC at the points labeled " 12_ " then there is something very wrong with the wiring, and very unsafe.

I feel that it is in your best interest to employ the services of a professional at this point.

For liability reasons, my opinion is that we ( doityourself.com ) should not be attempting to help with this issue any longer. Without being there to inspect and fully understand the issues, it would be irresponsible and reckless to attempt to help any further. It would also be putting YOUR safety at risk. (Your safety appears to be ALREADY at risk... )

Please understand that my feelings are based only on my perceptions of the issues you have and what I understand to be your skill level at this time. Nothing personal, please don't take offense!
 
Closed Thread
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: