Adding baseboard loop to steam boiler... piping and controls

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  #41  
Old 06-29-13, 08:34 PM
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What was the thermostat model again?


Honeywell ct8775a It a 2 wire heat only stat. It wasnt a brand new one. But i'll try the relay when i get it. It works when hooked up direct to transformer. if not i'll get a battery powered one.
 
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  #42  
Old 06-29-13, 08:39 PM
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Will the boiler cycle(fire) when the temp drops to he differential limit? even when t-stat not calling? do i need to turm it off or turn the 6006 way down or off/0 temp.?
 
  #43  
Old 06-29-13, 08:52 PM
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Hook up the thermostat to the 503 and see if it works.

Do i need to just put the 2 wires like i would any battery stat on top or do i need to use (jumpers) off the 24vac terminals inside?
 
  #44  
Old 06-30-13, 08:13 AM
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It works when hooked up direct to transformer.
You mean the display 'lights' when hooked to the transformer. If that thermostat calls for heat when connected directly to the transformer, one of two things (maybe both) will happen.

1. You will 'fry' the thermostat.

2. You will 'fry' the transformer.

You may have already fried something if you've tried this.

Will the boiler cycle(fire) when the temp drops to he differential limit? even when t-stat not calling? do i need to turm it off or turn the 6006 way down or off/0 temp.?
If the thermostat is not calling, the boiler will not fire.

X1 and X2 are what is called an 'endswitch'. What these do is 'pass through' the thermostat call for heat to the boiler. With no heat call, X1 and X2 will be 'open', and boiler will not fire.

You are probably going to want to use the maximum differential on the 6006 ... what is that, 30 on your model? This will keep short cycling of the boiler to a minimum.

Do i need to just put the 2 wires like i would any battery stat on top ...?
Yes. If it doesn't work, consider the thermostat defective. Do NOT put any other jumpers in place or you may end up frying the 503 panel also.

someone mentioned here need a low voltage relay so i got one coming which is a RIBU1C.
I don't believe that whomever told you that understood what you were asking. Ignore that advice please.
 

Last edited by NJT; 06-30-13 at 08:29 AM.
  #45  
Old 06-30-13, 09:33 AM
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You mean the display 'lights' when hooked to the transformer. If that thermostat calls for heat when connected directly to the transformer, one of two things (maybe both) will happen.

Yes it lights up and functions turns temps up/down/backlight.. Got the controls wired like you displayed fine. I encountered alittle bit of a set back of my own doing. I filled/purged the loop and for a second thought i connected my sprinkler to it..lol not god. 4 leaks - 2 at the rad which pretty much i have it all disembled by draining & unsweating connections. I can bench solder fine. Other times not so fine.
 

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  #46  
Old 06-30-13, 09:38 AM
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You are probably going to want to use the maximum differential on the 6006 ... what is that, 30 on your model? This will keep short cycling of the boiler to a minimum.

Think i set if for 20 but your right will set it on the max once get things going. glad i have plenty of time before it get cold again. might take me that long to finish.lol
 

Last edited by NJT; 06-30-13 at 05:24 PM.
  #47  
Old 07-01-13, 03:03 PM
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[First off I don't think this piping will work. Looking at it on my cell so harder to see. You need to come out of the boiler on one side and return to the opposite side. It looks like you are supplying and returning the same pipe.
Well you are correct. I just hooked it up ran it and not getting heat like it should. looks like i got to move that piping to the other side. i think i left enough room to work without removing the hot water tank. Good thing i have plenty of time before i need to use it to fix it.
 

Last edited by NJT; 07-01-13 at 04:49 PM.
  #48  
Old 07-01-13, 04:52 PM
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Mikk, you do understand that you should not be cutting into the steam pipes to hook up the hot water loop, right?

You need to find unused tappings, both BELOW THE WATER LINE of the boiler to connect the supply and return for your new loop.
 
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Old 07-01-13, 06:24 PM
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If those two black pipes connect together this will not work. Water will not move through the boiler. If you pull both the supply and return off the boiler even on two different sides of the boiler the boilers runs more than required. It doesn't take long to cool off the bottom pf the boiler. two different levels will runs boiler less due to stratification. Two different levels means less boiler operation of burners.
 
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Old 07-01-13, 06:34 PM
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You need to find unused tappings, both BELOW THE WATER LINE of the boiler to connect the supply and return for your new loop.
Yes the other side has unused 2 1/2" tapping. plug came out pretty easy. I put the boiler in in 2005. so its kinda new. after i addressed the leaks and pressure tested the rad.(should of done that the first time.)It ran well with the controls diagram you sent. Just not heating right using the same tapping for supply/return. which i figured but had to try it.. Now I wonder if i can use the same pump if i add a DWH down the road or would that be on its own? Probably need to get a zone valves? which are close in prices anyways.
 
  #51  
Old 07-01-13, 06:44 PM
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Is that 2-1/2" tapping higher in the boiler?
Pump question depend on tank I've piping size etc. if you used 1" pipe in and out of the boiler usually answer would be yes.
 
  #52  
Old 07-01-13, 06:47 PM
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If those two black pipes connect together this will not work. Water will not move through the boiler
Yes the water going to the loop wasnt even getting heated. I know now when i come off the other supply tapping it will get heated and pretty darn quickly.I know I should of done it right the first time - but you live and learn.
 
  #53  
Old 07-01-13, 06:51 PM
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Is that 2-1/2" tapping higher in the boiler?
2-1/2" well below water line. same height as other side. I'm using all 3/4" seems to be fine for short run.
 
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Old 07-02-13, 01:54 PM
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Strainer Connection?

Does it matter if its on a vertical line?
 
  #55  
Old 07-02-13, 06:24 PM
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See my previous post. The problem with both supply and return at the bottom of the boiler is the bottom water cools very rapidly but the water higher in the boiler is still hot. An aquastat on the heat pipe will fire the boiler up more often than needed. Once you fire the boiler thermal circulation starts within the boiler and usually will not run very long, short cycling.
Will it work, yes but at a higher fuel cost. No taping higher? Piping for an indirect should be 1" minimum and pump on the supply piping. Than you can do both heating and indirect on same piping.
 
  #56  
Old 07-02-13, 06:31 PM
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Moved the piping to the other side. Should of done it right the first time. getting to be an expensive $$$ basement rad.lol
 
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Old 07-02-13, 06:47 PM
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Will it work, yes but at a higher fuel cost. No taping higher?
Yes there is one other small tapping Looks like a 3/4" plug or 1/2" between the fittings for the water level site glass. about 3 inches above bottom fitting. guess i'll see how this will work.
 
  #58  
Old 07-03-13, 07:00 PM
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What boiler are you working on both manufacturer and model?
 
  #59  
Old 07-03-13, 07:45 PM
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What boiler are you working on both manufacturer and model?
Its a Dunkirk PVSB5. I'm thinking about putting in indirect water heater someday like this one >>> Hotline Indirect Water Heater | Dunkirk I have a 40 gal. now wonder if i can get away with a 30 gallon one?
 
  #60  
Old 07-05-13, 08:52 PM
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Looking at the tappings on the boiler it is not very conducive to indirect water heater due to tapping locations. Piped the way you were discussing will work but many more cycles on the boiler. It is amazing how quickly the bottom of the boiler will cool down and boiler water is still hot.
 

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  #61  
Old 07-06-13, 06:52 AM
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Piped the way you were discussing will work but many more cycles on the boiler. It is amazing how quickly the otom of the boiler will cool down and boiler wter is still hot.
Hmm? I guess i'll see how this heats this basement cast iron rad. This should heat much longer than like a slantfin baseboard. Shouldnt the indirect tank keep the water heated once brought up to the set point.?
 
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Old 07-06-13, 07:00 AM
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I doubt you need the relay for the thermostat. I saw that post in the other thread, and also saw that you hooked the thermostat at one point direct to the 24 V ... you may have 'fried' that thermostat by doing that.
Well got the relay hooked up an intially didnt make a difference. I traced the problem back to the wire i stapled along the ceiling line. crushed and shorted it. once i tried new unstapled wire worked fine with the relay. if i dont use the the relay. the red from transformer goes to R on thermostat? What about W on thermostat?
 
  #63  
Old 07-06-13, 07:26 PM
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You need the relay to start the pump and the boiler.you don't want to maintain temp on the boiler even after you add the indirect wter heter.
 
  #64  
Old 07-07-13, 09:51 AM
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Not to confuse the issue... but the 'relay' Mikk is talking about is one that someone else suggested that he would need IN ADDITION TO the SR503 ... in order to make his power robbing thermostat work ... and I don't believe that he should need any ADDITIONAL relays for that purpose.

I would bet there's a problem with that thermostat if it doesn't work when connected directly to the 503 panel... after all, it wasn't NEW, it's original condition UNKNOWN, and it was at one point connected directly to the transformer. My bet is that it's FRIED beyond repair.
 
  #65  
Old 07-10-13, 05:22 PM
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I would bet there's a problem with that thermostat if it doesn't work when connected directly to the 503 panel... after all, it wasn't NEW, it's original condition UNKNOWN, and it was at one point connected directly to the transformer. My bet is that it's FRIED beyond repair.
Actually, the used thermostat works just fine. I changed the wires it had going to it. I have it hookup like below. since it was working i just left it alone for now. but i was wondering how it would be hooked up with out the relay? still need transformer power, right?
 
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  #66  
Old 07-10-13, 07:11 PM
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wondering how it would be hooked up with out the relay? still need transformer power, right?
No. You don't need another transformer.

Hook the thermostat directly to the thermostat terminals in the 503.

If it doesn't work, reverse the wires and try again.

There's no reason at all that it won't work directly connected to the 503.
 
  #67  
Old 07-11-13, 03:48 PM
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No. You don't need another transformer.
So this doesnt need to be powered from a transformer? Oh i thought i had to wire it in somehow since it doesnt have battery powering the thermostat. I'll have to try it.
 
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Old 07-11-13, 05:21 PM
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There's no reason at all that it won't work directly connected to the 503.
Wonderful! works fine without the relay. i noticed the zone 2 lite on 503 flickers lightly when not calling- normal? I have the jumper on ZC & H. guess thats where its suppose to be? maybe i can use this relay for something else down the road. Thanks!
 
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Old 07-11-13, 06:32 PM
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So this doesnt need to be powered from a transformer?
Nope... it is what is called a 'power robbing' thermostat. It uses the power that flows in the thermostat circuit to power itself. The transformer in the 503 is connected very similar to the circuit that you posted of the relay.

noticed the zone 2 lite on 503 flickers lightly when not calling- normal?
It may be... because the thermostat is a power robbing type, some very small current is flowing in the thermostat at all times. This small amount of current is probably enough to 'flicker' the LED in the 503. If it's working properly otherwise, it's not cause for concern.

I have the jumper on ZC & H. guess thats where its suppose to be?
Yes. The diagram I posted is correct. There should also be a jumper from ZC & H over to P .
 
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Old 07-12-13, 05:18 PM
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Yes. The diagram I posted is correct. There should also be a jumper from ZC & H over to P .
I dont have any other jumpers. so i guess zone 1 is priority. maybe use that for DWH down the road. I tried switching around the thermostat wires thought that might remove the lite flickering but didnt. thats no big deal. my next possible(?) project was to add this wall hung basement rad to the hot water loop. its a short 8-10ft run from the supply "T" i piped in.
 
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