Need a new oil boiler

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  #1  
Old 08-19-13, 05:39 AM
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Need a new oil boiler

We have a Weil McLain boiler that is about 20 years old and on it's way out. We've gotten a few quotes on a replacement and I just need some advice.

Company #1: (2 years no interest)
Burderus $11,500
Burnham $8,200
Lennox $7,500

Company #2
Slant Fin $6,500 (5 years no interest)

I'm having two other companies come out also.

We have about 1600 square feet, two zones, electric hot water heater.

Any suggestions, advice. Right now I'm leaning towards the Slant Fin because of the price and five years no interest...
 
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  #2  
Old 08-19-13, 07:09 AM
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Make sure they tell you what's all included, for example: new circulator pump, expansion tank, relief valve, shut-off ball valves on each side of the pump, pressure reducing valve (a.k.a. automatic fill valve), complete check out and air bleeding, etc. Don't make a move until you check the references of the outfit you intend to go with.

When they say "no interest for X years," believe me, it's been added into the price and you are paying it. If you have the means, get an alternate price for cash on the barrelhead.

P.S. 20 years isn't really all that old for a hot-water boiler. What problems are you having with it? Is there any chance that natural gas will become available to you in the near term? If so, maybe best to limp along and buy a gas-fired boiler?
 
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Old 08-19-13, 07:43 AM
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I like the slant fins... Which one did they quote you for??

Boilers-Residential

What is there now? Make and model?

I am with gilmore...Whats wrong with the boiler you have now?
 
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Old 08-19-13, 07:46 AM
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natural gas and problem with oil boiler

The chamber is cracked and it needs a new smoke pipe...

I'm not counting on natural gas anytime soon...

They quoted us on the Intrepid TR-30
 
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Old 08-19-13, 07:59 AM
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They quoted us on the Intrepid TR-30
No way... You should do a heat loss calculation of the home, but you probably only need 40k btu to heat your home... lets say 50K btu..

That boiler is oversized...

You should put the smallest boiler in.. The TR 20...


http://www.slantfin.com/images/stori...epid_tr_10.pdf


Now if I had oil and and thinking long term at a min I would want a 3 pass design like the ec 13 p here..Its more efficient.

http://www.slantfin.com/images/stori..._ec1020_10.pdf


Additionally what type of chimney do you have? Are they relining?????
 
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Old 08-19-13, 08:18 AM
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I can't remember the other models that the other company quoted us...
I'll try to find the models of the Lennox and Burnham.

I think it was the Burnham V8.
 
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Old 08-19-13, 09:06 AM
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rpearlberg

...The chamber is cracked and ...
I guess I look at the world through mud-colored glasses (lol) but is there any way for those of us that are not experts to verify a cracked boiler? Probably most people are honest but Id want to verify myself if possible- that the boiler is cracked. Maybe rpearlberg you have already done so.
 
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Old 08-19-13, 09:29 AM
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I guess I look at the world through mud-colored glasses (lol) but is there any way for those of us that are not experts to verify a cracked boiler? Probably most people are honest but Id want to verify myself if possible- that the boiler is cracked. Maybe rpearlberg you have already done so.
Totally agree!!! Make sure you see for yourself. I was told my chamber was cracked some yrs back. I assumed it was the metal. But it was just a drop in chamber box that you just cut a hole in for the burner. Easy fix. This company (LYNN) makes chamber kits. Just giving possibly another option.

Lynn Replacement Combustion Chamber Kit #1060 For Weil McLain Model# 66, 68, and 68V: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Anyway this is the right place for help.
 
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Old 08-19-13, 09:32 AM
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Thanks! I know nothing about this, I wouldn't even know where to look for a crack..

I don't mind replacing since a new one would be more efficient/quieter and hopefully save on some oil costs...

My issue is I can never tell if the person is being honest or just wants to sell and doesn't care if it's the right size/model for our house...

Is there a section on here to discuss local companies?
 
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Old 08-19-13, 10:17 AM
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Is there a section on here to discuss local companies?
Cant discuss companies but you in the right spot to get advice on sizing and proper install...

Is your current boiler leaking water???

Can you take pictures of it and post the make and model?


How is your hot water heated???


The v 8 would be oversized too IMO... You would want the MPO IQ 84...

http://cdn.usboiler.net/products/boi...Literature.pdf
 
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Old 08-19-13, 10:23 AM
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current boiler is not leaking.

I'll get the model when I get home, it's a Weil Mclain.

we have an electric hot water heater.


One company came in and did some measurements, but definitely not a total heat loss calculation, they are the ones that recommended the Burnham. The other guy came in and just looked at what we currently have and then suggested the Slant Fin...
 
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Old 08-19-13, 10:54 AM
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current boiler is not leaking.
Then there is no crack of the heat exchanger.... Possibly just needs relining of the firebox...



and it needs a new smoke pipe...
Smoke pipe is cheap... Whats the matter with it??? Rusted? Holes in it???

Possibly you have other issues like low return temps of the boiler water causing condenstation....This is cause by piping the boiler wrong with out any kind of by pass...

This is common with cast iron heat emitters... You have radiators or cast baseboard?

If so you will be wasting your money on a new boiler if the companys are nott going to install some type of boiler protection..

Ill say it again both boilers they quoted you are oversized based on your square footage...

Here is the heat loss calc..

http://www.doityourself.com/forum/bo...alculator.html

You can figure yourself... But I am pretty sure any of the smallest oil boilers you can find will work... Oil nozzles do not get much smaller then .50 I believe so that denotes around 80k btu I believe.

Other oil pros will be around shortly to give you added advice....
 
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Old 08-19-13, 02:53 PM
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boilers

Now another guy just came and started talking about propane...way too many choices here...

So this is what has been quoted so far:

1. Slant Fin Intrepid TR30 with Carlin EZ-1 burner and circulator

2. Burnham Cast Iron V8 oil boiler less coil 109K, Grunfoss circulators and relay board, air separator, extrol tank

3. Burderus 83000 low nox w/logamatic control 90%, Grunfoss, etc...

4. Lennox Conservator 80%, 105-140K, Grunfoss, etc...

I have quotes coming from another company tomorrow....
 
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Old 08-19-13, 03:02 PM
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All too big IMO...Although I cant find burdeus spec for an 83000...

Plus you never stated what type of heat emmiters you have....

Propane???? Cost more AFAIK...
 
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Old 08-19-13, 03:09 PM
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baseboard

Sorry, we have baseboard heat. He said propane is more up front, but cheaper to operate.
 
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Old 08-19-13, 03:36 PM
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baseboard copper / aluminum fined??? Or cast iron???
 
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Old 08-19-13, 03:54 PM
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My issue is I can never tell if the person is being honest or just wants to sell
Don't you know how to tell if a boiler salesman is lying? I bet you can guess the punch-line.
He said propane is more up front, but cheaper to operate.
What do you mean that propane is "more up front"? And who is "he"? It's cheaper to operate than what? You better run the numbers yourself - if you can't or won't, then you are at their mercy. Both propane and fuel oil are derived from the domestic refining of petroleum.

Also, don't depend on a prospective contractor to run the necessary heat-loss calculation. You are talking to, what, five different contractors? I bet they know how many you are talking to, even it you haven't told them. Would any one of them spend several hours running a decent heat-loss calc in the off-chance of getting the job? Or, if they don't get the job, that you could provide their results to one of the other four? Do the heat loss yourself, or get your pocketbook out.

P.S. I think it's a good idea to talk to several contractors if you don't have someone you know and trust - but unfortunately, that doesn't assure that you will have a satisfactory installation. For that, you need to have referrals or personal experience. I live in a simpler and more trusting area, perhaps - I call my established painter, concrete mason, landscaper, tree trimmer, electrician, roofer, or carpenter, and tell them to do the job and send me the bill. If there is any doubt in my mind as to the magnitude of the project, I will ask for an estimate first, but I will pay for whatever it takes. And, if I ever need immediate help, my established relationship will pay off. I pay promptly, and I believe I am a valued customer. They use my bathroom while on the job, and stop by the house if they see me outside. They would be my guests at a holiday party.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not a Pollyanna. I am a fairly knowledgeable DIYer who can talk one-to-one with some tradesmen. I will walk away from anybody that I didn't trust.

My sense is that the path you are embarked upon may not result in such an established relationship. I think such relationships are most often established with small outfits - maybe family owned or an individual tradesman.
 

Last edited by gilmorrie; 08-19-13 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 08-19-13, 04:33 PM
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Combustion chamber cracks are not uncommon with oil-fired boilers due to the intense heat of the oil flame. Usually they can be patched with a little refractory cement and will be fine for a period of time. When the cracks become extensive then you need to rebuild/replace the entire refractory liner.

I agree with the others, twenty years is NOT old for a boiler. It is doubtful that you could achieve enough of an efficiency increase with a new boiler to pay for the new boiler in any kind of reasonable amount of time.

Rather than call for bids on boiler replacement you need to have a qualified SERVICE person give you bids on repairing or replacing the refractory combustion chamber.
 
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Old 08-19-13, 04:41 PM
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replace chamber

the whole reason this started is that during our yearly service they said we needed to replace the chamber and the smoke pipe for $750. My concern was that if I did that then in 6 months something else would break and I've have to put more money into a 20ish year old boiler...
 
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Old 08-19-13, 04:45 PM
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the whole reason this started is that during our yearly service they said we needed to replace the chamber and the smoke pipe for $750.
I think you may being bamboozled. I think others have told you so much already. Run, don't walk, away.
 
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Old 08-19-13, 05:00 PM
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I agree with gilmorrie. While prices of labor and materials vary by geographical area $750 for just smoke pipe replacement and a combustion liner repair sounds a bit steep. Depending on the particular situation I would guess somewhere in the neighborhood of $350 to $500.

You MAY be able to replace the smoke pipe yourself for just the cost of a pair of tin snips and the material itself. Even the combustion chamber cracks, if fairly minor, may be a DIY job. Some pictures might help one of us to help you.
 
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Old 08-19-13, 06:18 PM
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the whole reason this started is that during our yearly service they said we needed to replace the chamber and the smoke pipe for $750
Just curious - how long have you been using them for annual service? How did you wind up with them? What do you really know about them?
 
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Old 08-19-13, 06:20 PM
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service

I've been using them for almost three years, since we moved into this house...
 
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Old 08-19-13, 09:44 PM
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Rather than call for bids on boiler replacement you need to have a qualified SERVICE person give you bids on repairing or replacing the refractory combustion chamber.
I know that's what I would do if I wasn't going to do it myself. At least if you still want a new boiler it will buy yourself more time to figure out all the proper steps to take before buying one.

My boiler was 20 yrs old about 30 yrs ago
 
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Old 08-20-13, 05:42 AM
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I replaced the chamber on my Ultimate 20 year old boiler 2 years ago. Total cost $350.
Smoke pipe was replaced 5 years ago, total cost $25.
You are being taken for a ride.
 
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Old 08-20-13, 09:00 AM
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Furd

for just smoke pipe replacement and a combustion liner repair sounds a bit steep. Depending on the particular situation I would guess somewhere in the neighborhood of $350 to $500.
...
tomf63

I replaced the chamber on my Ultimate 20 year old boiler 2 years ago. Total cost $350.

Smoke pipe was replaced 5 years ago, total cost $25.
OK Tom you and Furd are working as a team. You guys cut it out (LOL just kidding!)

Amazing estimate (again) by Furd.
 
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Old 08-20-13, 03:05 PM
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Pearl, you were going to tell us what model boiler you currently have, didja fergit?

Take a look at this web page:

Patriot Supply - LYNN Products

will give you an idea of the cost of replacement combustion chambers. It's likely one of them will fit your boiler.

So, for under $100 dollars in parts, they want to hand you a $750 bill?
 
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Old 08-22-13, 03:32 PM
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OK Tom you and Furd are working as a team.
Little known fact: Tom and Furd are brothers in law.
 
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Old 08-22-13, 09:14 PM
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VERY little known "fact". The woman I was married to had only a sister. My brother's wife has only two sisters.
 
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Old 08-23-13, 08:53 AM
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lol lol lol lol ...........

never thought of relatives! lol
 
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