Replacing 45 year old utica boiler need direction and advice

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Old 08-19-13, 02:46 PM
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Replacing 45 year old utica boiler need direction and advice

I am replacing my 144k btu oil fired furnace with hot water heater coil 2 zone hydronic baseboard (185 lft). I am replacing this system with either a biasi B 5 series 3 stage 108k btu burner or the mpo 112 btu unit.

I am also installing an indirect 30 or 50 gallon stone tank lined water heater either a Vaughn with the biasi or an an alliance with the MPO.

There are 4 adults using the hw .

I am under the impression the biasi comes with the indoor outdoor aquastat standard to help improve efficiency, the mpo is a 795.00 add on.

The price for biasai is 7800.00 installed with 50 gallon hwh and the MPO is 8000.oo without the option 795.00 aquastat.

I have a few questions regarding which set up is best and most economical and appreciate your input. questions:

1. do I need a 50 or 32 gallon hw heater if oversized is it dramatically costing me efficiency

2. are the additional outside temp sensing equipment cost prudent if additional and what do they increase efficiency by?

3. is one unit considered bullet proof over the other ?

5. my chimney is 23 feet from flue height to cap 14 feet is internal of the structure and the remaining 9 feet is exposed on 3 sides the chimney is a dual flue one for oil burner one for woodstove (which burns from nov to mar 5 days a week 24/7) both flues are 9 x 11 the mpo contractor wants an additional 1500.00 to place a stainless steel 6 inch pipe to vent the furnace . the biasi contractor seems to feel the riallo burner and the fact that chimney is clay lined and mostly inside it is not needed anyone have any thoughts?

The heat loss on the house is approx. 93k btu

I appreciate all of your input regarding these questions
 

Last edited by NJT; 08-19-13 at 05:58 PM.
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Old 08-19-13, 05:56 PM
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The heat loss on the house is approx. 93k btu
May I ask how you know that?

Is your home on the order of 3700 sq feet?

1. do I need a 50 or 32 gallon hw heater if oversized is it dramatically costing me efficiency
How many 'units' of hot water using appliances do you have? i.e. dishwasher, hot tub, wash machine, etc... many homes can get by with a 32 gallon. If you have extraordinary usage patterns, a 50 might be a better choice. We can't answer with the information given.

2. are the additional outside temp sensing equipment cost prudent if additional and what do they increase efficiency by?
It depends on many factors. For example, my personal experience with the MPO is that the outdoor reset module doesn't really do much because I can heat my home even in the coldest weather with fairly cool (by boiler standards) water. Your mileage could well vary greatly depending on a number of factors.

3. is one unit considered bullet proof over the other ?
No such thing as 'bullet proof', but I wouldn't trade my MPO for a Biasi any day...

5 my chimney ... anyone have any thoughts?
What happened to 4 ?

I would have an INSULATED liner installed with either system.

Most building codes will require it.

Has the chimney been inspected? I mean REALLY inspected? How do you know there are no cracked tiles or missing mortar? It's not wise to play with fire... literally, not to mention flue gas condensation issues. Newer higher efficiency boilers are more prone to this due to the fact that the exiting temperature of the flue gases are much cooler.

A 9X11 clay flue chimney is almost definitely too large for any modern oil burning appliance.

Your installers ARE pulling permits, and this installation WILL be inspected, correct?
 
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Old 08-19-13, 06:25 PM
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one dishwasher two showers one washing machine. chimney has been inspected flawless clay liner top to bottom
 
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Old 08-19-13, 06:28 PM
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sorry skipped 4 by mistake but big concern is chimney house is 50 years old did as standard j after sidining and window replacement for most part exterior walls are a mix of old style insulation which has setteled
 
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Old 08-19-13, 06:31 PM
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permits are being used
for the installation and will be inspected
 
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Old 08-20-13, 08:12 AM
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... literally, not to mention flue gas condensation issues. Newer higher efficiency boilers are more prone to this due to the fact that the exiting temperature of the flue gases are much cooler
.

It happened to me by just retrofitting my boiler. Soon after I started getting clay flake piles in the bottom of my chimney.
Plus your new boiler will run more efficient with proper size.

I would have an INSULATED liner installed with either system
I would too since you have plenty of room. Was that part of the Quote you got??When I had contractors give estimates nobody was going to insulate the liner. I did talk to a couple of liner supply houses and was told it wasn't totally necessary for oil. But codes may be different now and depending on state. If I had room in chimney I would have done it.

Not for nothing if it is a straight run and easy roof access it is a fairly easy job. And a Lot cheaper. Not sure if you have to be licensed though.

Also sorry to say you might want to look into your wood burning chimney?? I thought it was highly recommended for them to have an insulated Liner???
How long have you using it like that without problems?? Just a thought not 100% sure on this.

Good Luck
 
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Old 08-20-13, 04:20 PM
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told it wasn't totally necessary for oil.
In some cases you can 'get away' with it, but the hotter you can keep the flue gases as they go up the chimney, the better. My new MPO installation last fall is an example... existing chimney is a manufactured 103HT double wall in 6" size.

The old boiler had no problem with it, the flue gas exiting the boiler was about 450 and a lot of it (145K BTU). When I installed the new boiler, as soon as it got a bit colder out, it was literally RAINING condensate inside that 6" chimney, and it's only 16' tall!

I'm currently in the process of installing an insulated liner in that chimney to reduce it's size so that the flue gas travels faster, doesn't draw as much 'dilution air' in the barometric damper, and hopefully solve the acid rain in my chimney.

you might want to look into your wood burning chimney?? I thought it was highly recommended for them to have an insulated Liner???
I am ABSOLUTELY in agreement with that suggestion myself!
 
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Old 08-21-13, 01:05 PM
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the house is approx. 1850 sq ft of heating area with a 950 sqft basement non heated where oil burner and plumbing is 6.5 feet below ground all sides 1.5 ft exposed on all sides above ground
 
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Old 08-21-13, 04:23 PM
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Why are you replacing the boiler?
 
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Old 08-21-13, 05:22 PM
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the house is approx. 1850 sq ft of heating area
OK, so how do you know that the heat loss is 93K then?

An 'average' insulated home your size might have a heat loss more in the order of 50-60 K BTU, more or less. 93K is quite high for a home that size.
 
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