Primary secondary piping options

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Old 10-08-13, 08:24 AM
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Primary secondary piping options

Hi all,
I am about to convert from direct piping to p/s piping on my tt 110 solo. As of now, I am going to over pump my zones with the in cabinet circulator working with the other zone pumps. So what would work out best?

1) make a primary loop from boiler

2) or connect the supply and return manifolds together and connect the supply and return piping from the boiler to the connected manifolds with closely space tees.

3) remove in cabinet pump and keep it piped direct assuming each zone separately keeps the 5 gpm flow?

Thanks in advance
 
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  #2  
Old 10-08-13, 06:22 PM
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option 1 is not drawn correctly, each zone should return to the loop in closely spaced tee's
Option 2 is my preference, as it avoids mixing issues.

I suspect you want the same water temp to each zone.

I am not crazy about where the expansion tank is.
If your not using the DHW outlet on the solo then pipe your expansion tank there.
 
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Old 10-09-13, 02:58 AM
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Thanks TOH

I think my set up will look like the p3 diagram in the tt application guide.

The expansion tank location is from when I did the boiler swap.



http://www.heatinghelp.com/files/pos...on-Booklet.pdf
 
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Old 10-09-13, 09:39 AM
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Here is the diagram from the application guide
 
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Old 10-09-13, 04:35 PM
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Technically speaking your pumping into the point of no pressure change.
So, what does are pressure do at the discharge of the boiler circ ?
...
...
Nothing, but in order to have flow, we need to have a pressure drop across the circ...
So then, what happens to the pressure at the suction end of the circ?
...
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It drops, and do we want the hottest part of our boiler system being the lowest pressure ?
...
...
No, we do not want that.


I have never agreed with Triangletube putting a circ in the boiler, and I have even suggested they remove it. We typically rewire the circ to become the DHW circ and place the boiler circ in a more controlled location.

But thats just me, I'm a wild and crazy guy LOL.
 
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Old 10-10-13, 03:11 AM
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You got my attention

So, can you explain to me what this means. I would really like to keep this piped direct and remove the circ from inside the boiler all together and just use my secondary pumps. I hate the idea of sending hot water back to the boiler that you want to condense. All of my zones are pretty big and 5 gpm would be met if just 1 zone was calling. But with the circ in the boiler is a problem for what I want to do.
 
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Old 10-10-13, 05:33 AM
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Actually, when you have greater flow going through the system loop than the flow going thru the boiler, the closely spaced tee's are going to create a mixed water point at the supply injection tee.
You return water temp will be the average of all the return water temps based on temperature and flow. This is what the boiler will see as return water temperature.

I would not waste time or effort moving the pump out from the boiler.
If you want to have the expansion tank in the very best location, place it on the port that would go to the DHW circulator. This puts it at the suction point of each circulator. Or leave it where it is, it's not that evil of a location.

As for your loads, 5 GPM for each load is approx 50,000 BTU in a standard world.
Why such high flow rates ?
 
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Old 10-10-13, 07:38 AM
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So, you are saying keep the in boiler circ and pipe pri/sec?

In terms of the 5gpm, isn't that what tt recommends as a min flow rate? Or am I mistaken?

I just know if each zone ran separately from each other, I would still have the minimum flow needed for the heat exchanger. Thus, the direct piping question.

To direct pipe, I would have to remove the boiler circ to prevent over pumping the zones?
 
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Old 10-10-13, 01:50 PM
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If you pipe direct and all your zones call, then you will over pump the boiler.
really that way to do it is dump all the zone circs, use zone valves and an ECM circ in the boiler.

That would get expensive fast, but if I was doing it from scratch that is what I would do.

In your case, I would just pipe it is you have shown in your diagram #2.
That is, unless you want to make work for your self.
 
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Old 10-10-13, 04:34 PM
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Work I don't mind.

It's the money thing that I would have the issue with at this time. I will do the 2 diagram. I wish I was doing this from scratch too.
 
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Old 10-11-13, 02:36 AM
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One more question TOH

Since my IHW tank is piped out of the separate tapping on the tt, do I need an expansion tank on that loop?

Right now the circ is wired to the dhw on the trimax but there is also a spot for an auxillary circ. should I wire my IHW circ to this since I do not have an expansion tank on that loop?
 
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Old 10-15-13, 07:20 PM
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you need only 1 expansion tank on the system.
I would be ok with it located where you showed it in diagram 2
 
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Old 10-16-13, 02:58 PM
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So I am ok with wiring the indirect circulator on the dhw spot on the trimax strip?


So when the indirect calls, the circulator for the indirect runs only.

If I wire it to the auxillary spot on the strip,the in boiler pump runs as well.
 
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Old 10-17-13, 05:24 AM
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yes, as long as it's piped the way you have indicated in the TT application drawing
 
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Old 10-17-13, 08:09 AM
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Right now it is piped direct in series, with the indirect running on its own circulator. I am going to make it pri/sec though. Should I run the IHW pump on the auxillary of the trimax strip until I make it pri/sec.

When it is running on the dhw spot, I get about a 20delta.

Not even sure what the auxillary spot is for anyway?
 
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Old 10-28-13, 02:17 PM
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One last question

I am starting to pre build some parts of my piping configuration to make pri/sec. Is it o.k to pipe from the boiler and tie into supply manifold with closely spaced t's from above the manifold?
Thanks in advance
 
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Old 11-10-13, 03:30 AM
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Finished

Here is the finished project. It took 4-5 hrs. Overall, glad I changed from direct to pri/sec per manual. Thanks TO for the help.

Pete
 
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