Oil boiler ignition lockout!

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Old 11-12-13, 04:54 PM
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Oil boiler ignition lockout!

So I recently moved in to a house with an oil boiler and I'm having a heck of a time with it. Started it up and it was obvious it hadn't been serviced in a while by the look and sound of it. Also, it was periodically tripping the honeywell primary ignition lockout red button thingy.

SO I got a service guy out to clean it and so forth. That he did and sounded and looked a hundred times better, but the lockout kept tripping. He suggested it was the primary control itself and quoted me 300 bucks to change it. I ordered a new one myself for 70 bucks and replaced it, with no luck. It works fine, but the lockout keeps happening. So then I ordered a new cad cell flame sensor and changed it. Lockout keeps happening.

What do I do next??? Flame seams strong, fan is turning, pump appears to be working… What have I missed?
 
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Old 11-12-13, 05:49 PM
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What's the number of the control and does it trip at any particular time? Are you getting any delay in your ignition. Are you getting after burn? (Fire stays burning unburned oil after motor stops.
That control is probably a 30 sec. safety. If you have a delay it may be shutting down on that. If the cad cell eye sees light after the burner is off that too will put it in lockdown.
 
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Old 11-12-13, 06:12 PM
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The control is a HONEYWELL R8184G4009 and the cad cell Beckett 7006U Cad Cell Eye (Honeywell C554A1687). I'm not 100% sure when it trips as it always seems to do it when I turn my back. There are times everything fires and run properly and as soon as I go to bed or take a shower, it seems to trip. (I think it's a 45 sec safety) It's gone as long as two days without tripping, but the more it runs the more it trips.

SOMEtimes after hitting the reset, I have to rap it with my knuckle in the vicinity of the transformer/cad cell area.

I've never had this type of system before, so I'm flying blind here. I did well to change those two parts after a metric ton of internet research. Those seemed to be the most common causes.
 
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Old 11-12-13, 06:24 PM
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You shouldn't have to be rapping a new control. That control is simply there as a safety in case of no ignition so you don't empty you old tank if it doesn't lite.
If your electrodes and burner assembly aren't set right you could be getting oil on you ring at the end of your assembly and getting after burn which will make this lockout also.
I guess the first thing to do is find it when it goes off. When it tries to ignite or after it shuts down.
If you have to rap a new control make sure your connections tight and wire nutted properly.
If it does go off on ignition it could most likely be your transformer. That's the thing the cad cell is hooked on to or your electrodes, maybe the tips are out of alignment or worn down.
 
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Old 11-12-13, 06:31 PM
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I'm rapping it more around the transformer area. I'd considered the electrodes not being set right, but the service guy seemed to think it was firing fine.

Last thing I did to it was move the cad eye position a tad. It's been running for the past 3 hours with no problems, but I can never tell when it's going to happen.
 
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Old 11-12-13, 08:40 PM
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Transformers can be a nuisance. They'll be good for a week then nothing then good again then nothing.
If your rapping it now you might want to pick one up. If your doing it yourself they're cheap enough instead of freezing at night or on a holiday and you know that's when it will fail.
 
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Old 11-13-13, 08:34 AM
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freezing at night or on a holiday and you know that's when it will fail
3 AM on a Sunday, Christmas Eve, blizzard of the century blowing 30" of snow sideways.

Yep, that's when................................
 
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Old 11-14-13, 04:14 AM
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Sometimes it'll run for 7-8 hrs straight, sometimes I'm resetting it every 2. And of COURSE it goes off at least once in the middle of the night, making me stomp down to the basement to reset it.

My fear is the service guy is just going to keep suggesting and replacing parts instead of honestly troubleshooting the thing - and in the end it's going to be a case of wiping a smudge of oil off something or turning a screw.
 
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Old 11-14-13, 06:37 AM
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My fear is the service guy is just going to keep suggesting and replacing parts instead of honestly troubleshooting the thing
I would suggest that you get it in writing that the parts he changes FIXES the problem or you get a refund... why should you have to pay some TINKERtician to 'play' with your system until he gets it right?
 
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Old 11-14-13, 12:21 PM
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When you reset it to you get a puff of smoke(unburned oil) or a delay. Did you notice when it trips if it's trying to light or after a cycle.
On another note Parts Changing is a real per peav of mine, but in all fairness to the tech if he gets there and everything is working what would you look for. It's not like calling a plumber for a leaking pipe.
A little off point but years ago I was the new guy on the job and my boss got a call similar to yours and sent out a tech. He checked the transformer and cleaned and adjusted the electrodes and it worked perfectly. It ran all day and night. The next day she called again, same problem. This time the boss went out. This went on for about a week, they both were there every day. Being so new I was doing cleanings and not involved. Finally at the end of his rope he sends me up figuring it couldn't hurt.
We knew if was an ignition problem but where. I decided tbo try something.
I disconnected the motor wire, opened up the transformer and removed the assembly. I put the assembly on the transformer terminals and turned on the power sending spark to tips. What I was looking for was any delay in getting the spark to the tips. After finding nothing significant with the power on I ran my screwdriver up the electrodes and got a surprise. Although the electrodes looked new they had hairline cracks and when the metal screwdriver went over the porcelain the spark stopped.
As it turned out that every now the the electrodes were shorting out on the metal tube on the burner long enough to cause it to trip. Why it didn't do it every time is anyone's guess.
I replaced the electrodes and we had one happy customer, but it took over a week partly because nobody wanted to just change parts.
In stead of going through this torture you might suggest that if they put in a part and it doesn't work they put your old part back in go from there.
A reputable co. shouldn't have a problem with that.
At the end of the day my boss charged her for my time and the electrodes and we had a customer for life and picked up a few from word of mouth from that job.
It all worked out in the end.
Sorry for the long story but your problem brought back memories.
Good Luck.
 
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Old 11-14-13, 01:30 PM
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Yeah, I just wish I could catch it doing it. Sometimes it'll run for seven or eight hours straight and sometimes I have to reset it every two. I'd literally have to camp in the basement or put a camera on it to catch it.

The part that really gets me is the tapping. About 15% of the time I reset and it comes right on. The rest of the time I have to knock the thing with my knuckles or a screwdriver handle for it to come on. THIS leads me to believe it's somehow electrical, but I just can't see where.

Generally, I see the thermostat come on.
Then the call for heat.
Then the "arcing" noise and pump (I think).
Then the burner.
It runs for its allotted time and goes off and does whatever it does.

I've watched and listen it cycle through up to 5 times without any problems. 5 minutes after I go upstairs it's off. Hit reset button, tap tap tap, repeat forever.
 
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Old 11-14-13, 01:50 PM
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When you the pump do you mean the motor and when you the burner do you mean when the fire comes on.
Unless you have a delay valve on your pump a soon as it gets a call for heat everything should come on at once. When the motor starts the fire should come on. If you're hearing the arcing and the motor or pump then the fire you have a delay in getting the spark to the tips to ignite the oil. If it delays long enough it will lock out.
The pump cannot operate without the motor. There is coupling that ties them together.
If your rapping the transformer something may be wrong internally that cannot be fixed. Those are throwaways.
The bottom line is you shouldn't hear one thing then the other. Everything fires immediately.
 
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