American Standard boiler flow direction and expansion tank / air scoop location

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Old 11-19-13, 08:28 AM
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American Standard boiler flow direction and expansion tank / air scoop location

I have a circa 1970 forced hot water America Standard Boiler model 1BSE J1 with a Taco 007 pump located on a line coming from the bottom left (facing boiler) which is pumping hot water from the bottom of the boiler and up. The expansion tank is located on the return line and has no air scoop. My system is air bound. This is a single zone system supplying heat to a second floor.

I would like to reverse the loop so that the return line feeds into the bottom of the boiler and out the top. I believe this was the original direction and was reversed. I supplied pics, help is greatly appreciated.

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Old 11-19-13, 08:35 AM
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Hello.... Just reverse the pump. Where the pump is, its the return.....

No air bleeders anywhere? I see one at the water feed. replace that... That is normally sufficient....

What type of heat emmiters?

Put a ball valve below that boiler drain at the pump.. This will be your purge station...
 
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Old 11-19-13, 09:01 AM
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Just an fyi...the copper pipe was cut after the pump to remove a frozen open shutoff.
 
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Old 11-19-13, 09:17 AM
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This is a baseboard system.

So, you wouldn't suggest installing an air scoop at the expansion tank?

You can't see it, but there is a vent at the top of what is being used as the hot water loop feed...downstream of the pump. By reversing the pump this vent will be on the return line loop.

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Old 11-19-13, 12:15 PM
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An air scoop is always part of a hot water system. It's got 1 purpose and that's to remove air which seems to be your problem.
They have the inexpensive ones or you can get a good like SPARCO or equivalent.
It's worth the investment.
 
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Old 11-19-13, 12:30 PM
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My opinion is air scoops are over rated. I would replace both AAV's you have..

I have the same set up as you with two AAv's and my boiler is 30 plus yrs old..

Your AAV's probably are not working and need/needed to be changed...

Once you put the purge station back and get the bulk of the air out you should be fine...

Again turn the pump so its pumping towards the boiler....
 
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Old 11-19-13, 08:59 PM
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Ok, so i reversed the pump, replaced both vents, plumbed the Expansion tank so it was right side up and purged the air. I did this by running the pump w/o heating the boiler to be sure most if not all air was gone. Then I fired the boiler. Same issue... The supply side gets hot, runs up the pipe but the return is cold. No circulation. I checked the baseboards for a vent. They have none.

I managed to locate the original owners manual and my hunch was correct: the pump WAS backwards. It's the correct configuration now. I'm thinking of replacing the pump but my gut tells me to vent the baseboard.
 
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Old 11-19-13, 09:48 PM
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Is your system just a loop. One pipe going up through all the baseboard and back into the boiler.
Get your pressure up to 25 lbs or so and without the pump and maintaining that pressure for the water through the loop bleed the system. The air has no choice but to come out.
When you get a steady stream of water shut off the drain and the fast fill or whatever your using to keep the pressure up.

After everything is bled, drain remaining water down to about 15lbs. Fire up and that should do it.
Just my opinion but I would close those air vents. With a loop system they serve no purpose. Although they'll never bleed any air out, with the pump running you can actually suck air in.
Would have gone with the air scoop.
As far as the expansion tank goes it can be installed anywhere in the system.
 
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Old 11-21-13, 09:22 AM
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We have heat!

The cold water feed is plumbed into the top of the boiler so it would have pushed water and debris toward the pump since the drain valve is located under it.

I connected a garden hose to the lowest drain valve (with a washer hose which has 2 female fittings, i turned folded the end to stop the flow....this allowed only a minimum amount of air into the system), closed the cold water feed, closed the shutoff above the pump and connected a hose to the drain valve located before the pump shutoff valve. This way I was pumping water into the system in the proper direction of flow of the loop. I left the new air vents in place.

Though I was careful not to let the pressure build too high and too rapidly, it blew open the pressure relief valve. Definately a blockage in the loop. Barely any air came out (through the top-most vent, it functioned perfectly) but an incredile amount of rust, debris, scale poured out of the drain hose. I open the pump shutoff valve at the end to squeak out any scale left.

I reset the system, fired it up and it has run well so far. Thanks for the advice, it was a huge help!!
 
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Old 11-21-13, 03:42 PM
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I dont think you did a main air purge correct...

You needed to shut the valve over the pump and purge from the boiler drain above it...

Guess you got it working though...


Just my opinion but I would close those air vents. With a loop system they serve no purpose.
Thats all he has to get the residual air out spott.. I dont think they should be closed...


Although they'll never bleed any air out, with the pump running you can actually suck air in.

Huh????
 
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Old 11-21-13, 05:28 PM
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I did shut the valve over the pump and purge from the drain above it.

"....closed the shutoff above the pump and connected a hose to the drain valve located before the pump shutoff valve."

Read more: http://www.doityourself.com/forum/bo...#ixzz2lKVCceHb
 
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Old 11-21-13, 05:36 PM
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"....closed the shutoff above the pump and connected a hose to the drain valve located before the pump shutoff valve."
No its should be valve above pump then boiler drain above shut off. If its not like that then that is your problem...

Put a ball valve below that boiler drain at the pump.. This will be your purge station...
I said it in post #2....
 
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Old 11-21-13, 07:03 PM
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I did what you stated and put a ball valve below the boiler drain at the pump.
 
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Old 11-21-13, 08:43 PM
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Simply put, close the ball valve above the pump.
Attach a drain hose to the draw off above the closed ball valve.
Feed the system through the fast fill through the supply.
It will run through the system and come out the drain hose. When it produces a steady stream of water shut off drain and fast fill valve. Open return line ball valve. Drain remaining water from system until you get 15 psi. Fire up and enjoy.
 
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Old 11-21-13, 09:07 PM
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Spott, go check out Post #9
 
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Old 11-21-13, 09:24 PM
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I thought you were all right but with current posts I didn't know if something else had happened.
 
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