Energy Save On - Should we Disable Outdoor Reset Module on Burnham ES-2?

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Old 11-26-13, 09:21 PM
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Energy Save On - Should we Disable Outdoor Reset Module on Burnham ES-2?

Hello folks,


There doesn't appear to be a lot of information available about the Energy Save On mode nor the Outdoor Reset Module. We appear to be in conflict with this Module. We have the lcd display as shown here: http://cdn.usboiler.net/products/boi...tion_sheet.pdf

Anyone able to recommend how to disable the Outdoor Reset module on an ES-2? I removed it once and the system remembered it was there and kept looking for it.


We're encountering 3 hour periods where the boiler won't fire due to being in an Energy Save ON mode. Believe this is due to the Outdoor Reset Module.

During these periods, the thermostat is calling for heat and the house grows very cold waiting for the boiler to realize Central Heat is being requested.

Last night the Outdoor Reset registered 42 degrees F outside. The thermostat was calling for 72 and internal house temperature dropped to 62.

The Taco shows a call for heat. The boiler won't snap out of it until there is a call for Domestic Hot Water and then it'll recognize a need for heat. We're not keen wasting a bunch of water just to coax the boiler into responding.

Previously we just bullied through it. We have a 7 week newborn in the house and need to boiler to produce heat when called.




The boiler recommends setting the HL up 5 degrees each day this occurs. We're now up to 190 and not sure this is a safe setting given the max is 180?



d. Outdoor Air Reset
If an outdoor temperature sensor is connected
to the boiler and Outdoor Reset is enabled,
the Central Heat setpoint will automatically
adjust downwards as the outdoor temperature
increases. When the water temperature is
properly matched to home heating needs there
is minimal chance of room air temperature
overshoot.

Excessive heat is not sent to the room
heating elements by “overheated” (supply water
temperature maintained at High Limit setting)
water.

Reset control saves energy by reducing
room over heating, reducing boiler temperature
& increasing combustion efficiency and reducing
standby losses as a boiler and system piping cool
down to ambient following room over heating.
 
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Old 11-27-13, 01:25 PM
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What are the settings on your ODR module?

Maybe you've got them set too low and the boiler isn't kicking on because it doesn't think that it needs to?
 
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Old 11-27-13, 08:08 PM
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Check these links and compare the factory settings to your settings.
Print this out and fill it out, email it to me and maybe I can help. I am very familiar with these controls. Are you doing night setback on the stat?
http://comfort-calc.net/ES2-ESC/ES2_Parameter_Chart.pdf
US Boiler new IHC control
Burnham Option Card Instructions
Once you do that call me. You can remove the card until we talk after you write the parameters down.
Here are the directions.
Remove card
Press the "I" button until you see "LRN"
Press and hold either arrow key until OCP reappears. This erases card from memory and boiler operates like the card was never installed.
 
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Old 12-02-13, 03:25 PM
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Hello rbeck and NJ Trooper,

No setback. The thermostat is set so it won't deviate from 70 degrees.

I'd love to get to the point where 70 degrees F is the most efficient. There was a gentleman on here possibly one of you that had optimized a 70 F degree constant temperature as the most efficient and cost effective heating method.

Thank you for the information. The IHC and Option Card instructions were very helpful in attempting to fine tune the settings.

The ES2 is set to:

bt - 105 degrees at the time of this writing and dropping.

HL Setpoint 180 degrees F (HL?)
HL Setpoint Range is 220 degrees F (St?)
Hdf - Differential is 10 degrees F
Sp - 130 degrees
hr - off

Circulator Overrun (Or) is currently set to 0 seconds.

Outdoor Reset Module

dS - 180 degrees F
Pt - 5 Minutes
SS - 170 degrees F
tb - 5 Minutes
Lo - 0 degrees
Ho - 70 degrees
Lb - 70 degrees
Hb - 210 degrees. Default is 180. This is what it has been set to until three days ago when I started to increase Hb 5 degrees each day per the informational help section on the boiler troubleshooting.
Lt - 130 degrees F

No Secondary HL Module

No Aquastat

No Low water cut-off add on module. There is a unit that is a Low water cutoff (Safgard Low Water Cut-Offs 550 / 650 / 750 Series)

We do have an Indirect Fired Water Heater Attached. Runs like a dream! Burnham AL50SL.

Attached to it is a Honeywell Aquastat Controller L6006A that controls the temperature and call for the domestic hot water. Set to 120 degrees.

1 zone configured in a loop. 2 floors controlled by a Taco ZVC403 Zone Valve Control. This is where I see the thermostat is calling for heat (Zone 1). It isn't until the DHW calls for water and completes the request (Zone 2 lights up on the Taco ZVC403) that the boiler finally recognizes that Central Heat has been calling for heat.

No Active Alarms on the Boiler

No Historical Alarms. This was cleared out last October when we had to replace the Pilot Assembly. The Boiler Tech reset all of the fine tuning settings of the Outdoor Reset per my request to confirm they were optimized.

I had a whole house heating analysis run up prior to putting this system into place. I don't recall how to read it anymore, it has been a few years.
 
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Old 12-02-13, 03:35 PM
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Thank you for checking NJ Trooper. That is certainly a possibility given the experience.
 
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Old 12-02-13, 04:07 PM
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No Aquastat
Yes, there's an aquastat. That's what controls the temperature of the boiler water.

Bring the Hb back to 180, raising this isn't going to do any good if the burners aren't firing on a heat call. The problem is elsewhere.

RAISE the Lb up to the default of 110 - you have fin-tube baseboard radiators, is that correct? Leave this at 110... MINIMUM of 100. You won't get any useful heat out of baseboard under 100-110F anyway, so why pump cool water if it does no good?

When you raise the Lb, you should see consistently higher Sp numbers at a given outdoor temperature.

Sp - 130 degrees
This value is variable and under the control of the ODR module. This is the 'target temperature' that the boiler will use as it's high limit when there is a heat call.

If a heat call comes in to the boiler AND the boiler temperature is BELOW that SP, the boiler should fire. If it does not, then there is something else going on.

When the thermostats call for heat, you should see this parameter " hr - off " change to ON, meaning that the boiler has recognized a heat call incoming.

When there is a heat call from a thermostat, the corresponding "TSTAT LED" on the ZVC panel lights, yes? and does the corresponding "VALVE LED" ALSO light?

Based on the description, it sounds to me as if the problem may not be at the boiler at all. It sounds more like either the ZVC panel, or a ZONE VALVE is not signaling the boiler to fire...
 
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Old 12-02-13, 04:18 PM
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Hdf - Differential is 10 degrees F
Change this to at least the default of 15F
 
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Old 12-02-13, 07:43 PM
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Besides what Trooper suggested also make these changes.
Set ST back to 140f.
th to 20 minutes
Pt 20 minutes
When the boiler us not responding hit the "I" button and check if "hr" is on. Is the circulator running? Is the light on the zone panel indicating a valve is calling?
Is the Alliance wired to terminals 3&4 on the ODR card?
Where is the zone panel wired to on the boiler?
 

Last edited by rbeck; 12-02-13 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 12-02-13, 08:00 PM
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Thank you NJTrooper. I have made all of the recommended changes.

The tstat LED does illuminate when heat is being called as well as the zone valve LED.

By Aquastat, I do not have the External Limit option card.

Checking to see if the Hdf differential is a configurable option.
 
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Old 12-02-13, 08:27 PM
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When the boiler is not responding, hr is off.

I'll need to confirm but do not believe the circulator is running during this time.

The light on the zone panel is indicating a call from the thermostat and then the zone valve.

The alliance is wired to "T" terminals zone 2 on the Taco ZVC403 as well as wires connecting to terminals 3 & 4 on the outdoor reset option card.

The outdoor sensor is connected to the terminals 1 & 2. Thank you for confirming. I have concerns about the installation.

I'm not certain how to clearly answer where the zone panel is wired to the boiler.

From the taco "end switch" terminal connects to a Honeywell L4006h1004 reset box. It looks just like the tstat on the alliance side. This one is set to 210 degrees. They enter the boiler and I'm unable to locate where the two wires terminate behind the bulk of the display behind the boiler service cover.
 
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Old 12-02-13, 08:32 PM
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I may be overlooking something obvious here.... I am unable to locate how to modify the HdF to 15 or the St to 140.

All other changes have been made. The boiler is firing until it reaches 155 degrees and is shutting down for 60 seconds and then fires again. Is this what we'd like it to be doing?

I imagine the water in the pipes are nice and toasty with this cycle.
 
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Old 12-02-13, 08:59 PM
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When the boiler is not responding, hr is off.
Not responding, but WITH A HEAT CALL, correct?

That right there is your problem.

The alliance is wired to "T" terminals zone 2 on the Taco ZVC403 as well as wires connecting to terminals 3 & 4 on the outdoor reset option card.
Huh? I don't think that's right if I'm understanding what you are saying correctly.

Are you saying that the wires from the indirect aqustat are going to the T T on the ZVC and then continuing on to the ODR terminals 3 & 4 ?

There's 24VAC on the ZVC T T terminals and I don't think you want to be feeding that 24VAC to terminals 3 & 4 on the ODR module.

Does your ZVC panel have only ONE set of endswitch? Or is there also a "ZONE 3 RELAY" on it?

From the taco "end switch" terminal connects to a Honeywell L4006h1004 reset box.
That sounds like an auxiliary HIGH LIMIT control. You've pushed the reset button, right?

One of the ENDSWITCH from the ZVC panel should pass through that control, the other should go to one of it's terminals. The other wire on the other terminal of that control should pair up with the wire that's 'passing through' and continue on to the T T terminals of the IQ panel (at the lower left corner).
 

Last edited by NJT; 12-02-13 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 12-02-13, 09:04 PM
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I am unable to locate how to modify the HdF to 15 or the St to 140.
rbeck can confirm this, he knows these boilers a bit more intimately than I do, but I believe that the earlier models may not have had those functions.

shutting down for 60 seconds and then fires again. Is this what we'd like it to be doing?
That doesn't sound right... if the boiler temp is hitting the SP (SetPoint) and turning the burners off, I would think it would take more than 60 seconds for the water to cool off enough to drop below the differential and fire the boiler again...
 
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Old 12-02-13, 09:09 PM
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I have a suggestion about rewiring the indirect input to the ODR, but want to clarify something first.

Is you CIRCULATOR being run off of the boiler circulator wiring, or is it somehow wired to the ZVC panel and running off of that?

Are you using Honeywell 8043 zone valves?

I'm sure rbeck will agree with me that you need to do something with that wiring from ODR 3 & 4 in parallel with the indirect aquastat to the T T terminals of the ZVC panel...

The solution that I have in mind is easy enough to do, would take about ten minutes, but it means that you can NOT use the indirect 'priority' setting on your boiler because if you did, the circ pump would not start on an indirect call until the priority time ran out.

Your setting show us that you are NOT running priority now, and this is why ...

Here is what I suggest:

Remove the wires that are going to ODR 3 & 4 from the T T terminals of the ZVC. You will have ONLY the aquastat from the indirect on these terminals.

Remove the wires from the indirect zone valve that are now on terminals 3 & 4 of that zone valve output.

Place a wire jumper between zone valve terminals 3 & 4

Connect the wires that you removed from zone valve 3 & 4 directly to the wires that go to ODR 3 & 4.

When the indirect zone valve opens, it will DIRECTLY signal the ODR that there is a DHW heat call.

The ZVC will also signal the boiler on the T T terminals that it should run the pump.

This isn't going to solve the other problem, but it is a correction that needs to be made.
 

Last edited by NJT; 12-02-13 at 09:35 PM.
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Old 12-02-13, 09:49 PM
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Here is a picture of my Taco. It is like a splice. The Aquastat on the indirect connect to the two TT, a pink and white wire for zone 2. Another set of wires from terminal 3 & 4. Pink on 3 and white on 4.


Zone 3 isn't wired.
 
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Old 12-02-13, 10:00 PM
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Are you using Honeywell 8043 zone valves?

I can't clearly see the wires... to cluttered... but from what you are saying, I'm editing your quote for clarification, tell me if it's correct:

Here is a picture of my Taco. It is like a splice. The Aquastat on the indirect connect to the two TT, a pink and white wire for zone 2.

Another set of wires from [THE ODR] terminals 3 & 4. Pink on 3 and white on 4.
If you've got wires from the ODR on the same T T terminals as the indirect aquastat, that is WRONG.

There are TWO ways to correct this issue.

The FIRST I've outlined above.

The SECOND I'll get into tomorrow.
 
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Old 12-18-13, 02:07 PM
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My apologies for the delay. Very little heat during the cold snap and were tending to frozen water pipes.

I do appreciate your assistance here. I've hired professional boiler technicians requesting they come out and review my configuration and installation with very little success.

The house is very cold and we're seeing 6 or more hours where the boiler won't recognize a call for heat.

The Call for heat on the Taco is on and then the Zone Valve lights up and the boiler won't fire for hours.

It isn't until there is a call for DHW that the boiler will fire to accomadate the request and then realizes there is a call for heat.

Is you CIRCULATOR being run off of the boiler circulator wiring, or is it somehow wired to the ZVC panel and running off of that?
The short answer is I'm not certain. Per the picture of taco2, only the valves are connected on the bottom of the board as zone valves 1 and 2.

I'm betting the circulator is being run from the boiler.



Are you using Honeywell 8043 zone valves?
I'm not sure. The valves are situated where I can't get a good look at the sticker / plate for them.





Here is a picture of my Taco. It is like a splice. The Aquastat on the indirect connect to the two TT, a pink and white wire for zone 2.
I've traced the four wires that are connected to Zone 2 of the Taco that I'd previously mentioned were a splice.

Two wires are connected to the ODR terminals 3&4.

The other two are not connected to anything. They run to the Alliance but are not connected. I believe they remain from the installation. The Alliance came with a Burnham TPI - t-stat that has two posts for tt and another two for the 24 volts.

The installer replaced this t-stat with a Honeywell Aquastat Controller L6006A stating something like the burnham t-stats were problematic.



Here is what I suggest:

Remove the wires that are going to ODR 3 & 4 from the T T terminals of the ZVC. You will have ONLY the aquastat from the indirect on these terminals.

Remove the wires from the indirect zone valve that are now on terminals 3 & 4 of that zone valve output.

Place a wire jumper between zone valve terminals 3 & 4

Connect the wires that you removed from zone valve 3 & 4 directly to the wires that go to ODR 3 & 4.

When the indirect zone valve opens, it will DIRECTLY signal the ODR that there is a DHW heat call.

The ZVC will also signal the boiler on the T T terminals that it should run the pump.

This isn't going to solve the other problem, but it is a correction that needs to be made.
I will make these changes to the boiler when I get home this evening.

I've been hesitant to modify this until the call for heat issue could be sorted out.
 
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Old 12-18-13, 03:59 PM
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Hold up on those changes until we understand EVERYTHING, because the new information you just posted appears to change something...

Why did you post the picture of the R8845 wiring? Do you have an R8845 relay ?

The valves are situated where I can't get a good look at the sticker / plate for them.
I need to know this. Use a mirror if you can't see them.
 

Last edited by NJT; 12-18-13 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 12-18-13, 04:01 PM
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I've hired professional boiler technicians requesting they come out and review my configuration and installation with very little success.
What did they do? Stand there and scratch their heads? Poke at the wires a little bit and then leave?
 
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Old 12-18-13, 04:13 PM
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I can't follow those wires in the photo, too jumbled up...

And now you are saying that there is a different control on the Alliance ?

They removed the Alliance control and replaced it with an L6006A ?

Please confirm that's what you are now saying.
 
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Old 12-18-13, 04:15 PM
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Let's do it this way, 1 step at a time. Please just directly answer the questions, 1 step at a time.

QUESTION:

You now have an L6006A on the Alliance. There are TWO wires connected to this control.

Tell me EXACTLY where they go. To what terminals, on what piece of equipment?
 
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Old 12-18-13, 04:16 PM
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QUESTION:

There are TWO wires on the ODR module terminals 3 and 4.

Tell me EXACTLY where they go. To what terminals, on what piece of equipment?
 
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Old 12-18-13, 04:21 PM
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QUESTION:

There should be TWO wires on the ENDSWITCH in the Taco.

Tell me EXACTLY where they go. To what terminals, on what piece of equipment?
 
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Old 12-18-13, 05:10 PM
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QUESTION:

You now have an L6006A on the Alliance. There are TWO wires connected to this control.

Tell me EXACTLY where they go. To what terminals, on what piece of equipment?

Answer: They end at the taco, Thermostat (top row) Zone 2.
 
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Old 12-18-13, 05:12 PM
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Answer: They end at the taco, Thermostat (top row) Zone 2.
Good, that's where they belong.
 
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Old 12-18-13, 05:13 PM
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QUESTION:

There are TWO wires on the ODR module terminals 3 and 4.

Tell me EXACTLY where they go. To what terminals, on what piece of equipment?
Answer: They end at the taco, Thermostat (top row) Zone 2.
 
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Old 12-18-13, 05:19 PM
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Answer: They end at the taco, Thermostat (top row) Zone 2.
EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! WRONG!

I've got a drawing ready to post, but want to see the answer to the other question first, and then we'll talk about the drawing.
 
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Old 12-18-13, 05:23 PM
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QUESTION:

There should be TWO wires on the ENDSWITCH in the Taco.

Tell me EXACTLY where they go. To what terminals, on what piece of equipment?
Answer: They connect to a Honeywell L4006h1004 reset box that is attached to the boiler.

From the Honeywell reset box, they continue on into the boiler housing and end at the "T-T" terminals on the Option Control Panel.
 
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Old 12-18-13, 05:26 PM
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Answer: They end at the taco, Thermostat (top row) Zone 2.
EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! WRONG!

I've got a drawing ready to post, but want to see the answer to the other question first, and then we'll talk about the drawing.

I appreciate the assistance and will swap out anything you outline.

I came home and the wife informed me we're without hot water and the boiler isn't heating the home like expected. She's a bit uncomfortable with the house at 62.
 
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Old 12-18-13, 05:29 PM
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Answer: They connect to a Honeywell L4006h1004 reset box that is attached to the boiler.

From the Honeywell reset box, they continue on into the boiler housing and end at the "T-T" terminals on the Option Control Panel.
This is also OK, but there is a possibility that this 4006 aquastat (which is an auxiliary high limit control) is not passing the signal through to the boiler... we'll get back to this in a bit.

I came home and the wife informed me we're without hot water and the boiler isn't heating the home like expected. She's a bit uncomfortable with the house at 62.
Oh, that's not good at all... I hope that the ODR module has not finally fried by the miswiring...

Diagram in next post.
 
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Old 12-18-13, 05:29 PM
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I've hired professional boiler technicians requesting they come out and review my configuration and installation with very little success.

What did they do? Stand there and scratch their heads? Poke at the wires a little bit and then leave?
Boilers are not popular here in the Northwest like they are on the East Coast. There are three companies in Seattle that will service them and I've employed two of them without any improvement to the system.

They basically poke at it with a stick, grunt a bit and bill me $400.

The outdoor reset module and the LCD readout befuddles them.
 
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Old 12-18-13, 05:34 PM
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Here is what in my opinion is your best choice of wiring. I think this is what I described earlier, but it's often easier to paint a picture... worth 549 words, adjusted for inflation.



You need to remove the wires from ODR 3 & 4 from Z2 T T terminals. The ONLY wires you want there are the two from the Alliance.

Remove the two zone valve wires from terminals 3 & 4 on the Taco output, and place a wire jumper between 3 & 4 on the Taco panel as shown.

Take two small wire nuts and connect the wires from the zone valve to the wires going to ODR 3 & 4 as shown.

Make sure that the PRIORITY in the Boiler control is turned to OFF, you won't be able to do indirect priority with this setup.
 
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Old 12-18-13, 05:38 PM
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They basically poke at it with a stick, grunt a bit and bill me $400.

The outdoor reset module and the LCD readout befuddles them.
That is truly sad, and I do empathize.

What's even MORE sad is that even here in the NE, that's pretty much par for the course.

What's even MORE MORE sad...

is that I'm thinking with a couple very simple wire changes you may be back in da bizz... unless that ODR module got fried... but there's a 'work around' to get your stuff working even if it did get cooked.

... and the sadness comes from the fact that this is an EASY FIX!
 
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Old 12-18-13, 05:41 PM
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Would you happen to own and know how to use a multimeter?
 
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Old 12-18-13, 05:44 PM
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After you make the wiring changes, if you still have the same problem, we're going to dig into the 4006 aquastat and make sure that's wired properly and working correctly.

I asked this earlier but didn't see an answer, so perhaps you missed it?

From the taco "end switch" terminal connects to a Honeywell L4006h1004 reset box.
That sounds like an auxiliary HIGH LIMIT control. You've pushed the RED reset button, right?

One of the ENDSWITCH from the ZVC panel should pass through that control, the other should go to one of it's terminals. The other wire on the other terminal of that control should pair up with the wire that's 'passing through' and continue on to the T T terminals of the IQ panel (at the lower left corner).
What is the temperature setting on the 4006 ? (it should be like at LEAST 200F)
 
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Old 12-18-13, 06:04 PM
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You need to remove the wires from ODR 3 & 4 from Z2 T T terminals. The ONLY wires you want there are the two from the Alliance.

Remove the two zone valve wires from terminals 3 & 4 on the Taco output, and place a wire jumper between 3 & 4 on the Taco panel as shown.

Take two small wire nuts and connect the wires from the zone valve to the wires going to ODR 3 & 4 as shown.

Make sure that the PRIORITY in the Boiler control is turned to OFF, you won't be able to do indirect priority with this setup.

These changes have all been made. The wiring diagram made things much easier to correct. Thank you.

Just to confirm DHW Priority time on the boiler ODR Pt should be set to zero?

Pt - 0 Minutes
 
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Old 12-18-13, 06:07 PM
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From the taco "end switch" terminal connects to a Honeywell L4006h1004 reset box.
That sounds like an auxiliary HIGH LIMIT control. You've pushed the RED reset button, right?

One of the ENDSWITCH from the ZVC panel should pass through that control, the other should go to one of it's terminals. The other wire on the other terminal of that control should pair up with the wire that's 'passing through' and continue on to the T T terminals of the IQ panel (at the lower left corner).
Answer, the red button has been pressed. It does not move and sits rather tightly in the faceplate / cover. I'm not sure it can move freely enough to trip.


Would you happen to own and know how to use a multimeter?
I do own and can use a multimeter with some direction. Like ohms set to 200 or the like.
 
  #38  
Old 12-18-13, 06:55 PM
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Just to confirm DHW Priority time on the boiler ODR Pt should be set to zero?
Yes, I believe that's how it's turned off on that control... zero minutes means no priority.

The reason that you can't run the priority is because if you DID run priority, the system pump would NOT RUN during the priority time.

So, wiring is done, has anything changed?

Are heat calls now firing boiler?

How about hot water?
 
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Old 12-18-13, 06:57 PM
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Answer, the red button has been pressed. It does not move and sits rather tightly in the faceplate / cover. I'm not sure it can move freely enough to trip.
Slide the cover off that control and describe how it's wired...

And also report the temperature setting.
 
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Old 12-18-13, 07:09 PM
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Answer, the red button has been pressed. It does not move and sits rather tightly in the faceplate / cover. I'm not sure it can move freely enough to trip.
Slide the cover off that control and describe how it's wired...

And also report the temperature setting.
The Temperature is set to 205. Sorry, I'd missed where you'd requested this earlier.

It is wired with the pink wire from the End Switch on the Taco going to the top screw post.

Another pink wire is attached to the lower screw post that goes into the boiler housing and end at the "T-T" terminals on the Option Control Panel.

The white wire from the End Switch has a wire nut and splices the white wire that continues to the boiler housing T-T terminal on the Option Control Panel.


So, wiring is done, has anything changed?

Are heat calls now firing boiler?

How about hot water?

The boiler fired right on as soon as I'd turned on the power after the wiring change.

The boiler appears to be attempting to fulfill DHW and Central Heat which is good.

The radiant baseboards are still cool to the touch and do not feel as if they're heating yet.

DHW - we don't know quite yet if there is hot water available yet.
 
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