Honeywell Zone Control Valve V8043E1012- Connect to Line Voltage??

Reply

  #1  
Old 12-17-13, 05:40 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 9
Honeywell Zone Control Valve V8043E1012- Connect to Line Voltage??

I'm adding a basement zone to the heating system in my ranch-style house, for two zones total. The plumbing is straightforward: no questions there.

My question is about wiring of the zone valves and Honeywell's instructions.

I'm using Honeywell V8043E 1012 valves for each zone.
I understand the "yellow" wiring and how it works with the thermostats.

It's the "red" wiring (end switch) and the instructions from Honeywell I need some help with before I totally cook the zone valves and set my house on fire.

From what I've researched, I thought these zone valves worked on 24V on all wires, yet the wiring instructions included with the zone valves says that the "red" wires connect to line voltage - BEFORE the 24v transformer.

I simplified the instruction schematic for my own sanity and here's a jpeg:

Name:  V8043E-Wiring-colored.jpg
Views: 30238
Size:  39.3 KB

If this seems like it will work, please let me know.

But then here's another concern:
Should I have line voltage (120V) running through the 18 gauge thermostat wire, or should I run, say 14 gauge Romex?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I'm trying to get my house warm, but not by setting it on fire!

P.S. - The controller/transformer box (forgive me, I don't know what it's called) is a Honeywell RA89A. I think the "red" wires from the zone valves should be connected to Contact #4.

Is this right? RA89A Schematic attached:
Name:  ra89a.jpg
Views: 21299
Size:  41.4 KB

For cryin' out loud, I'd rather be out sailing, but it's too darn cold and the boat is out of the water anyway!

Thanks in advance for any help!
 

Last edited by aerolark; 12-17-13 at 06:30 PM. Reason: Added RA89A Schematic
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 12-17-13, 06:12 PM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2,678
Likes Received: 5
The zone valves are 24v but need to have there own transformer, which is what your schematic shows.
It is a step down transformer. 120-24v

It is powered with 120v(red line). You can get that from any source.
When you tie in the 120v it will measure 24v on the outlet side to run your zone valves.

The red wires is not an end switch. It's line voltage which will give 24v.

14g going to the transformer and 18g to the zone valves.
If you have a meter check the voltage across the out terminals after you connect the 120v.
 
  #3  
Old 12-17-13, 06:14 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Likes Received: 1
Hang on a sec Lark... Slow down... wait for it ...
 
  #4  
Old 12-17-13, 06:17 PM
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 123
Electrical guy here... No to telephone wire carrying 120vac.
Looks like Trooper is going to answer further...
 
  #5  
Old 12-17-13, 06:19 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Likes Received: 1
You need to tell us a LOT more about what you are doing, where you started from.

First, what document did you get that diagram from?

What leads you to believe that is the correct diagram to follow?

Tell us what you had BEFORE you cut the zone valves in.

Is the circulator connected to an AQUASTAT mounted on the boiler?

Tell us make and model of the boiler, and what controls are installed on that boiler.

There is VERY likely a COMPLETELY different diagram you should be looking at.
 
  #6  
Old 12-17-13, 06:38 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Likes Received: 1
Lark, please answer the questions I asked...

Yer gonna fry something if you continue.

Where is this RA89 that you drew? PRE-EXISTING on your boiler?
 
  #7  
Old 12-17-13, 08:20 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 9
WOW-This is like having a room full of knowledgable Uncles!

Thanks to all for responding so fast!
I'll try to answer you all one-by-one, but please be gentle - this IS my first time.

My German parents (I'm first-generation American) taught me this:
The only stupid question is the question you don't ask.

I'm not connecting anything now.
Unlike others, I ask for help before starting, rather than fixing a screw-up later. It always works out better that way.

Appreciate your concern, but please, no more RED BOLD. Let's take it easy.

I have main heat, and the basement heat will happen when it happens.
I have a pile of copper pipe, a bunch of baseboards, purge valves, zone valves, wiring and a second thermostat.
I want to be sure it's done right before I start and I'm happy experts are looking at my post.

To Spott

The zone valves are 24v but need to have there own transformer, which is what your schematic shows.
It is a step down transformer. 120-24v
Thanks! I was sure the voltage should be 24 for the valves. But the schematic I have shows the RED lines feeding in at 120V line voltage (before the transformer), which I KNEW couldn't be right.

To ThomasDB
Electrical guy here... No to telephone wire carrying 120vac.
Electrical guy here, too - 18G carrying 120V? I don't think so!
Holy Toaster In The Walls, Batman!
That's what "sparked" this thread!

To Trooper:
I've read so many of your posts and I'm REALLY happy you're paying attention to this thread!

First, what document did you get that diagram from?
What leads you to believe that is the correct diagram to follow?
From the Honeywell Instruction manual.
There are myriad options shown, I thought I chose the best one.
Please see Page 6, Figure 11.
I didn't make this up!

Here's the link to the PDF:
http://s3.pexsupply.com/manuals/1350..._PROD_FILE.pdf

Tell us what you had BEFORE you cut the zone valves in.
I haven't changed anything yet. The current system is a single, split loop 3/4 inch baseboard system. Purge valve for each loop, no bleeders.

Is the circulator connected to an AQUASTAT mounted on the boiler?
I can't find it, unless it's mounted inside the boiler.

Tell us make and model of the boiler, and what controls are installed on that boiler.
BOILER: (Old Aluminum Plate, a bit corroded, hope I got these numbers right)
American Standard G-25-DPG; Series 6BN-J5

GAS TRANSFORMER (Mounted on a 4" External Service Box):
Honeywell AT 30C-1005-1

CIRCULATOR:
Bell+Gossett: Series #100
Model(?): 106189

I really appreciate how much help you all already given and look forward to resolution.
 
  #8  
Old 12-17-13, 08:40 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 9
Very fast-acting Forum

TROOPER:
And now you've logged off... ok, whatever.
I didn't log off, perhaps the forum software logged me out while I was getting answers:
Your replies came only 20 minutes apart. Very fast for a forum.

There were a lot of things to research and the dog had to be walked, the sidewalk had to be shoveled, etc.

Thanks for your quick replies.
I'm sorry I didn't answer more quickly, but I hope I answered thoroughly.
 

Last edited by aerolark; 12-17-13 at 09:06 PM.
  #9  
Old 12-17-13, 08:51 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Likes Received: 1
2nd Gen here...

Would you happen to have the manual for the boiler? It's impossible to find them on the web. There is often a wiring diagram pasted to the inside of the front cover of the boiler, take a look and if it's there and you can photograph it so it's readable, let me know, it will help greatly.

But the schematic I have shows the RED lines feeding in at 120V line voltage (before the transformer), which I KNEW couldn't be right.
Actually, it can be right, but is not likely right for YOU.

I didn't make this up!
I knew that, I've seen the diagram before... I have MOST of the Honeywell papers... but the hard copy is all in a pile... just couldn't remember where I saw it.

I can't find it, unless it's mounted inside the boiler.
There may not be an 'aquastat' per se on that boiler, but there must be a 'high limit'

Follow the wire that goes to the circulator and tell us what is currently controlling it, what it is wired to.

Same with following the wires from the existing thermostat, tell us where that is connected.

In your first post, you indicated that you may have an RA89 relay... do you?

==========

In general, everything is going to stay wired the way that it already IS wired...

The thermostats will connect as you have shown... the yellow wires and the transformer to the zone valves.

The RED endswitch wires though, that's a different story most likely.

Basically, the point that you removed the wiring from the EXISTING thermostat to the boiler is exactly where you will connect the red endswitch wires in their place.

Once I know exactly (hopefully you will find a wiring diagram) how your system is currently configured, I will be able to draw a diagram.
 
  #10  
Old 12-17-13, 08:53 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Likes Received: 1
I thought this was a forum - maybe it's a chat room, instead?
No, it's a forum, but some of us (me) don't really have a life and spend almost every spare moment at the computer...

I was concerned that you were in the act of wiring this up and would make a big mistake and I wanted to stop you before you did. Now I know you are in the information gathering phase, It's not as urgent...
 
  #11  
Old 12-17-13, 09:13 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 9
It's all good and I REALLY appreciate your help, knowledge, and the time you spend at the computer helping us poor clods out.
 
  #12  
Old 12-17-13, 09:23 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 9
Do I have the manual for a boiler nearly as old as I am?
It's surely turned to dust, if even written in a language we still know!
Sanscrit? Ancient Latin? The King's English?

I'll go downstairs and take a look inside the cover, who knows what mysteries await?
I'll post it tomorrow morning:

It's 12:15 AM here and I have workers coming at 8 to continue some masonry work we're having done.

And now, Trooper, I AM signing off and bid you a good night!
 
  #13  
Old 12-17-13, 09:26 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Likes Received: 1
Auf Weidersehen!

You will have to pull the cover anyway to follow that wiring...!
 
  #14  
Old 12-18-13, 08:13 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 9
GŁten morgen -

Well, as I figured, we have no manual for the furnace. The house was built in 1966, and we're the 3rd owners, so the manual must have gone the way of all things.

Also, there was no wiring diagram inside either of the covers.
On the upside, though, the wiring and controls appear VERY simple.

Based on photos of other folks' setups, I think I'm very lucky that ours has room to work around and hasn't been monkeyed with too much from the original installation.

First, the outside of the whole setup:
Name:  AS_G-25-DPG_Boiler.jpg
Views: 4607
Size:  40.1 KB

Second, a closer look at the side-mounted controls:
FYI - the non-functioning transformer (upper left) shows NO voltage across the terminals: I didn't open the box to see if it was hooked up, though. This could be a spot I could put a transformer in, if I need to.
Name:  Side-Controls.jpg
Views: 4764
Size:  41.2 KB

Third, the inside of the RA89A box:
I put the wiring schematic as an inset in the upper right.
Name:  RA89A-Wiring.jpg
Views: 7588
Size:  47.4 KB

Fourth, the high-limit switch:
There does not appear to be an Aquastat.
Name:  Hi-Limit-Switch.jpg
Views: 3716
Size:  31.3 KB

Last, the lower front, showing the gas valve:
Name:  GasValve.jpg
Views: 3551
Size:  41.7 KB

Let me know what you think and if you need to know anything more.
Thanks much for your time and attention!
 
  #15  
Old 12-18-13, 08:51 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Likes Received: 1
Yes, this is going to be quite easy in fact.

I see wires on the 'non-working' transformer secondary, are they just hanging there and going nowhere?

You may find that the primary side is not connected if you remove from box.

Yes, that would be a fine place to mount a new transformer for the zone valves.

What you need to do with the zone valves is as I mentioned previously:

Wire the thermostats, transformer, yellow wires of the valves as you've shown.

The wiring from the existing thermostat will be removed from the RA89 relay and used above.

Wire the RED zone valve wires in parallel but instead of following the diagram you posted above, instead, the red wires will be connected to the T T terminals in the RA89 from which you removed the existing thermostat wires.

Simple as that!

When either zone valve opens, the 'endswitch' will make and signal the RA89 that heat call is needed... boiler will fire up and run just as it did with the single thermostat previously.
 
  #16  
Old 12-18-13, 09:34 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 9
Excellent! I was hoping it would be simple!

I see wires on the 'non-working' transformer secondary, are they just hanging there and going nowhere? You may find that the primary side is not connected if you remove from box.
They were snipped and are just flyin' out into space. Search me why they weren't REMOVED, when that job was done....I took the cover off and the transformer is connected, but dead. Why IT wasn't tossed away earlier is also a mystery to me.

Just so I'm clear:
I put a new transformer in where the non-working one is now, and connect the Yellow T-Stat wires to it.

I then connect the Red lines to the TT terminals on the RA89 (after removing the existing T-Stat wires).

And that should do it, right?
 
  #17  
Old 12-18-13, 10:14 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Likes Received: 1
And that should do it, right?
Das ist richtig!......................
 
  #18  
Old 12-18-13, 10:23 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 9
Viele Danken....

I'll be making the connections this weekend.
I'll post back then and let you know how I made out.

Again, many thanks for sharing all your knowledge so freely!
 
  #19  
Old 12-29-13, 05:45 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 9
Success!

A week later than expected (but the Holidays intervened) nevertheless - my basement now has heat.

Thanks to all who helped, especially NJ Trooper.
Couldn't have done it without your patient and clear advice!

All the best for a Happy New Year!
 
  #20  
Old 12-29-13, 06:40 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Likes Received: 1
Sehr gut!

Glad it all worked out well!

Stay warm my friend!
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes