Boiler Running When Calling For No Heat.....


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Old 12-22-13, 08:27 AM
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Boiler Running When Calling For No Heat.....

I recently bought a house with a hot water boiler system as its heating source. The other house I came from had a forced air furnace so this is new to me. It appears that my boiler system kicks on about every 30 minutes and runs for about 6 minutes even though the thermostat is not calling for heat. The registers are cold so no water is circulating. I use fuel oil here and my intermitent ignition relay is a Honeywell R8184G 1427. Right now I am going through about 3 gallons of fuel oil a day even though I may not require any heat. I assume it is trying to keep the water warm in the system at a set temp but going through nearly 100 gallons a month to do so seems like a huge waste of money with fuel oil nearly $4 a gallon. To solve this problem now, I disconnect one end of the thermostat jumper on the relay to shut the system down when the thermostat is not calling for heat. Do I have a problem here with the thermostat or relay or is just how the system works? Thank you in advance for your though and help.
 
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Old 12-22-13, 08:35 AM
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How do you get your domestic hot water ? If you get it from the boiler that's why it is running. To maintain boiler temp so you will always have hot water.
 
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Old 12-22-13, 08:36 AM
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how od is the house/boiler might just maintain the boiler temp limit within without heating if the circulator isn't calling the space won't heat.do you have a separate hot water heater for showers/sinks? if the cold water goes thru the boiler that is why it is running when the domestic hot water is used.NOTE those 2 different heated waters are separate of each other the baseboard/rads are basically a sealed system with that red fixed...12PSI water regulator on the cold water into the boiler ONLY
 
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Old 12-22-13, 08:40 AM
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[forum moderator - feel free to delete this. it appears that a few of us were writing/posting simultaneously. My reply does not add any value.]

How do you get your hot water? If it's a tankless system, your aquastat has a low temp limit setting to keep the boiler warm enough to give you hot water. Once the boiler reaches your low temp minus your differential, the boiler will start up and heat up until it reaches the low limit setting.

If you heat with an indirect DHW source (ie. a separate water tank), you could change your boiler to a "cold start" configuration. In this configuration, it will not maintain a low limit temperature - it will only fire if something (thermostat, DWH) triggers it. There are literally "dozens" of threads on cold start configurations in this forum, so do a search and check them out. Cold start is easy to set up, but does have some risks. Read up and make your own decision. I'm sure the forum experts will chime in as well.
 

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Old 12-22-13, 08:42 AM
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We have an electric hot water heater. The home was built in the late 1800's and the boiler system is 15 years old.
 
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Old 12-22-13, 08:44 AM
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does your aquastat have a low temperature limit setting?
 
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Old 12-22-13, 08:46 AM
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Is there any way I can set the low limit temperature way down in order to save fuel or is that a factory setting? I do not have a seperate water heating tank. I will read up on those cold start threads you mentioned.
 
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Old 12-22-13, 08:50 AM
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You have a control on the boiler, probably with a gray cover that may say Honeywell.
What is the model number of that control. You may have to take the cover off to find it.
Loose the screw and remove it. Completely safe.
 
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Old 12-22-13, 08:59 AM
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Completely safe.
Well................... I wouldn't say 'completely' !

WARNING! 120 VAC EXPOSED VOLTAGE INSIDE THAT 'BOX' ! DO NOT TOUCH THE WIRING TERMINALS! YOU CAN BE KILLED!

The gray box that Spott refers to is called an AQUASTAT. Yes, do tell us the model number of the aquastat.

It is probably wise to turn the power to the boiler off before removing that cover.

Inside there should be three dials labeled HIGH, LO, DIFF

Tell us what those dials are set to.

Is there a round plate on your boiler with bolts around the perimeter?

Are there two pipes exiting that plate?

Are they connected to the domestic piping in the home?

Can you post some pictures of your boiler and the valves and such around it?
 
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Old 12-22-13, 10:02 AM
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The Aquastat Model number is L8148A. I see a silver rotatable cirlce that has grooves on it set to 180. I assume that is the high temp limit. No other gauges or dials to be seen inside the aquastat. The water is coming into the top of the boiler system. Along side that pipe is what I assume is a evaporator tank on one side of the incoming pipe and on the other side looks like maybe for pressure release. On the bottom in the front of the boiler, a pipe comes out and up to my two zone valves. Hope that answers the piping questions. They are not connected to any domestic lines in the house. The Hot Water heater is seperate and electric. Am I doing any damage by disconnecting the thermostat wire on the ignition relay to stop the use of fuel? I disconnect it at 7:00 AM and reconnect it at night before I go to bed. That way I am not using fuel for those 15 hours a day.
 
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Old 12-22-13, 10:11 AM
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How do you know the thermostat is not calling for heat? Something is activating the boiler on what you indicate is a very regular schedule. That's what a working thermostat does!
 
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Old 12-22-13, 10:19 AM
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The thermostat is set at 64. The temp in the house is at 70 according to the thermostat. If I attatch the thermostat wire to the igniter relay, the burner kicks on and will run. I don't want it to run as I do not need heat in the house. To me, that is a waste of money. Maybe it is the way the system is suppose to work and I just have to accept that fact. I am used to a forced air furnace which only runs when heat is needed.
 
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Old 12-22-13, 10:30 AM
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Don't give up so quickly! No, this is not how it's supposed to work.

Let's think about this. Thermostat says 64, but house is at 70. You connect the thermostat and the boiler kicks on. Seems to me that the thermostat is telling the boiler to fire.
 
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Old 12-22-13, 10:34 AM
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What kind of T stat is it. Old, new, digital mechanical.
 
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Old 12-22-13, 10:38 AM
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You have a cold start control and the boiler should only run on a call for heat.
Until the cause for the unwanted running is found you can just shut your switch off instead of playing with wires when you don't want the boiler to run.

What other controls do you have Are you using zone valves or circulators for the zones.
What control are hey wired into.
Any pics possibly.
Do you own or use a multimeter.
 
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Old 12-22-13, 10:43 AM
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Please take the time to answer ALL the questions below.

The Aquastat Model number is L8148A.
No... there's something else wrong... that model of aquastat has no provision for "Low Limit" firing of the boiler unless there are other controls added.

Is that the only control on the boiler?

The high limit set at 180 is correct.

If I attatch the thermostat wire to the igniter relay
Let's use the correct terminology so that we all understand what we are talking about. We need to all speak the same language.

Exactly what component is this " ... igniter relay ... " which you speak of? Are you talking about the " T T " terminals on the 8148A AQUASTAT ?

OR, are you saying that the thermostat is connected to " ... intermitent ignition relay is a Honeywell R8184G ... " Please refer to this part as your " OIL PRIMARY CONTROL ".

Or is there some other device also connected?

If your thermostat is connected to the oil primary control, then there is something very strange going on with the way this system is set up.

my two zone valves
So, you've got zone valves also... what MAKE and MODEL are the zone valves, and how are they wired? Are the zone valves connected to a 'control panel' ? or are they wired together with individual wiring?

What is the MAKE/MODEL of the boiler?

Can you PLEASE take pictures of your system so that we can see what you are working on? We're getting nowhere fast with all the little 'tidbits' of information coming in dribs and drabs...

It is obvious to me from what you've said that there is either a wiring problem, or a defective zone valve, or a thermostat problem, but your system MIGHT be wired wrong also.

Inside the 8148A aquastat are a pair of " T T " terminals. There should be wires on them. Where do those wires come from?
 
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Old 12-22-13, 11:17 AM
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Sorry, a novice here

THe TT terminals that I am referring to are the ones on the Oil Primary Control. After looking at the thermostat wires, I think I found the problem. The house has three zones with three seperate thermostats. Several years ago, one addition froze and the pipes burst. That addition is not part of our living quarters right now. The zone valve for that area is shut off. However, when looking at how the thermostat wires are connected, it appears that room's thermostat is still in the loop. So is it possible if I disconnect that thermostat, it would run properly. Sounds too simple. And do I just take that thermostat off the wall and leave the wires apart? Will that end the system looking for that thermstat? If that is not the problem, I will get the rest of the info to you that you need. Pictures and such. Hope it is that simple.
 
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Old 12-22-13, 11:27 AM
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Actually if that's your problem you just have to remove one wire from the t-stat and that would do it. You don't need to remove the whole thing unless you want to.
 
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Old 12-22-13, 12:52 PM
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Sorry, a novice here
No problem... we all started somewhere! I just need to understand you is all... and part of that understanding comes from us speaking the same language!

Several years ago, one addition froze and the pipes burst. That addition is not part of our living quarters right now. The zone valve for that area is shut off. However, when looking at how the thermostat wires are connected, it appears that room's thermostat is still in the loop
So then you are saying that the boiler has been behaving this way for several years?

You should not have a thermostat connected to the oil primary.

If that is not the problem, I will get the rest of the info to you that you need. Pictures and such. Hope it is that simple.
Based on what I know so far, the REAL solution is not going to be so simple...

We need to understand WHY there are thermostat wires connected to your oil primary control... that's just the beginning.

In an effort to understand the problem, you DO have to answer the questions I asked. I mean, you want it fixed right, don't you?
 
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Old 12-22-13, 03:44 PM
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Trooper,
Post #1.
He's got an 8184 G and he's removing the TT jumper. Not a t-stat wire.
 
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Old 12-22-13, 03:49 PM
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I disconnect one end of the thermostat jumper on the relay
Yes... good point Spott!

TwinsFan, is that what you meant? the small jumper wire on the T T terminals on the oil primary control? That's what you were removing to stop the burner?
 
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Old 12-24-13, 06:21 PM
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Just to update the status of my boiler problem. I disconnected the thermostat in the part of the house that is no longer being heated because of burst pipes in the past and that seemed to have solved the problem of the boiler running even though heat was not being asked for in the living part of the home. Thank you all for your time, advice and assistance in my problem. I wish you all the Merriest of Christmas. God Bless.
 
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Old 12-24-13, 06:30 PM
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Merry Christmas. I'm glad to hear your problem solved
 
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Old 10-29-14, 07:09 PM
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NJ Trooper about boilers

I have almost the same story with my boiler coming on even though the thermostat isn't telling it to run. I was following along, but mine has the Honeywell R8184 G, and I have the three dials. Hi 180 Lo 160 and Diff 15. I also have a stand alone water heater, but it is plumbed so we can have the boiler feed the water heater or not with valves. Can I reduce the Lo setting to try an avoid the nuisance runs?
 
 

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