Possible Honeywell L8124A Issue

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  #41  
Old 12-28-13, 02:55 PM
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I got the probe out and cleaned it up. It was pretty gunked up. It is nice and shiney now. I put everything back together and turned the water back on but the pressure didn't really rise at all. I had 13 psi in the expansion tank.

I turned the power back on and only had power to the input of the LWCO and nothing going out to go to the aquastat and the taco.

I read in the manufacturer instructions that it could be an air bubble and to slowly unscrew the probe again and try to bleed it. I did that but there is absolutely no water in the pipe.

Everything is back the way it was but there is no water, did I drain too much out of the system? How do I get the water and the pressure back?

Here is a picture of the gauge.
 
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  #42  
Old 12-28-13, 03:20 PM
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Did you open all the valves on the supply and return and the boiler feed valve. If nothing, lift the lever on the feed valve and see if water comes in.
 
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Old 12-28-13, 03:25 PM
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As Spott said... on the top of the pressure valve is a lever. What happens when you slowly lift that lever up?

You should hear water going in, watch the gauge as you do this and release the lever when the pressure gets to 12 PSI.

As the water is going in, you should hear AIR coming out of the vent on the top of the air scoop.

You should make sure the boiler is refilled BEFORE OPENING the other valves near the flow checks.
 
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Old 12-28-13, 03:27 PM
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Why you can't get water in:

It means that your pressure reducing valve is not working and will need replacement.

If lifting the lever still isn't working...

Do you have a garden hose and a SPARE WASHING MACHINE HOSE laying around?
 
  #45  
Old 12-28-13, 03:56 PM
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Do I need to have any of the valves closed when I pull the lever on the pressure relief valve?
 
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Old 12-28-13, 04:04 PM
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I kinda wish that you hadn't opened them until you got the boiler pressure back... because if you did then the air in those pipes will have traveled up into the zones. Not a big deal really, more of just a 'bother' ... but still.

So for now, yes, close all four of the valves to the zones. Don't power the boiler up yet of course.
 
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Old 12-28-13, 04:09 PM
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I had 13 psi in the expansion tank.
That surprises me... was it changed recently?

Are you sure your tire gauge is accurate?

You DID measure this when there was ZERO PRESSURE in the boiler, correct?
 
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Old 12-28-13, 05:24 PM
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Any progress Nick?.................
 
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Old 12-28-13, 06:46 PM
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Sorry, got called into work for a few hours.

Upon returning though the boiler temperature is 75 and the pressure is 19? That is too high for a cold boiler isn't it?

When I measure the expansion tank it was when I sent the last picture of the gauge, it was as close to 0 as it ever went when I had the probe out.

It currently reads 12.5, I am sure my tire gauge is accurate; I race karts so I have a good gauge for that reason that I used.

What should my next steps be?
 
  #50  
Old 12-28-13, 07:00 PM
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Upon returning though the boiler temperature is 75 and the pressure is 19?
What should my next steps be?
With boiler still cold, CLOSE THE WATER FEED VALVE. You've got a bad pressure reducing valve. It's leaking through and over-pressurizing the boiler now.

Open a drain and let water out until you are at 12 PSI.

If you remove the cap from the air vent on the top of the scoop and push the pin down, do you get WATER out? If so put the cap back on loosely. If you get AIR, let the air out of the vent until you get water.

You are going to have to run the boiler with the feed valve CLOSED until such time as you can replace the pressure reducing valve.

Open the four valves on the zones and turn on the boiler ...
 
  #51  
Old 12-28-13, 07:03 PM
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It's actually quite common for the reducing valves to fail like this...

Yours was not flowing at all previously as evidenced by the pressure of around 7 PSI in the boiler, so there was probably 'crud' in the valve.

When you then operated it, that crud broke loose and got stuck under the valve stopper and it's now leaking.
 
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Old 12-28-13, 07:39 PM
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Ok, I closed the water feed valve and drained water until I got down to 12psi. Then I removed the cap from the air vent and pushed down on the pin and immediately got water out so I loosely put the cap back on.

I opened the 4 zone valves back up and fired up the boiler. It ran for 10 minutes, got to its 180 degrees and shut down like normal. This is at 20psi.

My next question is what type of limitations or dangers do I have running this system with the water feed valve closed? How hard will that thing be to replace?

Also, something a little unrelated, I think I stripped the drain valve I was using as it wont fully tighten now and has a slow leak. Should I just put a cap on it?

Thanks
 
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Old 12-28-13, 07:59 PM
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My next question is what type of limitations or dangers do I have running this system with the water feed valve closed?
You've got the LWCO which presumable works because it did not allow the boiler to fire when there was air in the pipe... so even if you had a catastrophic leak the boiler would not fire. Little risk or danger. I run mine all the time with the feed valve closed. Have been for 30 years... but I DO watch the gauges.

How hard will that thing be to replace?
Should be reasonably easy in your case... let me look at pics again...

I think I stripped the drain valve I was using as it wont fully tighten now and has a slow leak. Should I just put a cap on it?
I don't think you stripped it. This is what happens to old valves that rarely get used, and why the new style BALL VALVE type drains are so much better.

Yes, put a cap on it until warmer weather when you can change it out. When you put the cap on, you may notice it leaks a little from around the stem... just snug up that 'packing nut' under the valve handle to stop that.

The real question is going to be if the chattering has gone...
 
  #54  
Old 12-28-13, 08:12 PM
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The boiler has ran through a few cycles now to both zones in the house and got it nice and warm. The pressure gauge hasn't gone above 22psi. What is the max that I should ever let it get?

It shouldn't raise any higher though because there is no additional water entering the system, correct?

The domestic hot water is on its own feed I gather from the 2 water feed valves?

I will keep you up to date whether it starts chattering again.

Thanks.
 
  #55  
Old 12-28-13, 08:35 PM
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The pressure gauge hasn't gone above 22psi. What is the max that I should ever let it get?
22 PSI is fine... if you see it creeping toward 27 PSI then something is wrong...

When you checked the expansion tank air charge, you did not get ANY WATER out of the AIR valve, is that correct?

It shouldn't raise any higher though because there is no additional water entering the system, correct?
Yes, correct.

If any air snuck into the system though and didn't get pushed out, it's possible that when that air gets around to the air scoop and is vented, you may actually see it go down a little...

The domestic hot water is on its own feed I gather from the 2 water feed valves?
Yes. The domestic cold is the one coming down on the left side vertical pipe with the ball valve, then a tee to the backflow preventer and pressure reducing valve, then down and into the hot water coil.

It also travels across the front of the boiler to your 'tempering valve' which controls the temperature of the hot water sent to the taps (should be set at like 120F)

I can't really see the connection between your backflow and the pressure reducing valve because the wires are in the way in the pic... but I'm wondering if it might not be a good idea to replace both the backflow preventer and the pressure reducing at the same time. They're available as a 'combo'
 
  #56  
Old 12-28-13, 08:39 PM
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On the expansion tank I didn't really check for water out of the air valve. I just put my air gauge on it. When I pushed the pin on the top of the air scoop I got nothing but water.
 
  #57  
Old 12-28-13, 08:49 PM
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On the expansion tank I didn't really check for water out of the air valve.
You can still do that. Just a quick 'blip' should tell you.

I just find it odd that you said there's 13 PSI in a tank that probably hasn't been checked in how many years?

Reason that I'm still skeptical is because with two fin-tube baseboard zones, you don't really have much water in the system and this means that the pressure really shouldn't be going to 22 is it's starting cold at 12. I might expect 15... even 18 ... but 20-22 seems a bit high for your system.

So, I suspect that you MAY have water on the air side... and if you do, it means time for new tank as well.

Yes, top of air scoop air vent is fine to get water. Normal.
 
  #58  
Old 12-28-13, 09:06 PM
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Just checked again, no water out of the air valve. It is at 15psi now though, should I let some air out of the expansion tank? If I do so it should drop the pressure in the boiler?
 
  #59  
Old 12-28-13, 09:09 PM
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It is at 15psi now though, should I let some air out of the expansion tank? If I do so it should drop the pressure in the boiler?
NO! Don't let any air out!

If there is pressure on the boiler you will never get an accurate check of the air pressure in the tank.

If your tire gauge is showing 15 on the tank and 20-ish on the boiler pressure gauge it calls into question the accuracy of one or both of those gauges.
 
  #60  
Old 12-28-13, 09:09 PM
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Not sure when the last time the system was checked/charged. My wife and I just bought the house a little over a year ago. First time home owners and the house was built in 2002. This is the first time I have ever dealt with a boiler.
 
  #61  
Old 12-28-13, 09:13 PM
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Ok, I won't let any air out. Is 15psi normal operating range?
 
  #62  
Old 12-28-13, 09:21 PM
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Think about what's inside that tank for a minute... will help you understand why I suspect something with one or both of the gauges...

Inside is a rubber diaphragm. Air on one side, water on the other.

The AIR pressure in the tank when there is ZERO PRESSURE on the water/boiler side is supposed to MATCH the cold fill pressure... i.e. 12 PSI

This puts the tank FULL of air, and NO WATER.

Once the pressure in the boiler starts to rise as the water is heated and expands, water starts pushing into the tank and COMPRESSING THE AIR on the other side of the rubber.

It stands to reason then that the AIR PRESSURE which you measure on the tank will be the HIGHER of the two pressures... either the AIR pressure in the tank, or the WATER pressure in the boiler.

So, if your tank read 13 with ZERO on the boiler it means that it should still read 13 until the BOILER pressure begins to rise above that point.

Once it does rise above the 13 you would start reading the BOILER pressure because the water is pushing on the bladder and further compressing the air.

Thus, if your BOILER gauge say 20 and your tire gauge say 15, ONE or BOTH of the gauges are in error!

If your boiler gauge is in error, then you may not have STARTED at 12 PSI either!
 
  #63  
Old 12-28-13, 09:22 PM
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Is 15psi normal operating range?
Yes... and that may well be the pressure on the boiler... see above.

Also see: http://www.doityourself.com/forum/bo...ure-gauge.html
 
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Old 12-28-13, 09:25 PM
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Not sure when the last time the system was checked/charged.
Are you aware that the system should be serviced YEARLY?

Burner nozzle changed, electrodes adjusted, filters changed, combustion checked and adjusted if necessary, combustion chamber and heat exchanger brushed and vacuumed? etc ...
 
  #65  
Old 12-29-13, 10:27 AM
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So far so good with no chattering.

The pressure dropped slightly to 17-18psi at 175 degrees.

I was aware the system needs to be serviced/cleaned yearly, just didn't know what it all involved. I am having a hard time finding someone in my area to come out, no one will do it if you don't have an oil contract with them... I am currently still looking fore someone who will though.

Here are the pictures of the LWCO probe when I first took it out before cleaning.
 
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  #66  
Old 12-29-13, 02:35 PM
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The pressure dropped slightly to 17-18psi at 175 degrees.
I still think that you should verify that pressure gauge... being as how there was difference between what you measured with the tire gauge on the tank ( 15 ) and the boiler gauge (20-ish).

You getting oil from an 'independent' delivery company? Why not give them a call and ask who will service your system?

It's like that around here too... either you get a contract for delivery and pay about 50 cents more per gallon, or you learn to service it yourself and save a bundle on oil too... self service involves an investment in instruments and learning though. I dislike the way that the 'conglomerates' do business. They definitely get the average guy over a barrel.

That probe does look kinda nasty... did you brush that dope off the threads and put it back in clean so that you get a good ground?

Hopefully that's the cure!
 
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