Cant Adjust Aquastat, Tried EVERYTHING

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Old 12-28-13, 01:41 PM
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Cant Adjust Aquastat, Tried EVERYTHING

I have read every post I can find on adjusting my 2 year old Honeywell L7224 / L72248 Aquastat. I press the three buttons then the 1 button but all I get are 3 or 4 different codes, none of which I need to adjust the low limit, low differential, or high differential. only the high limit displays and can be adjusted. The boiler and circulator constantly cycle and it is driving this tired old cop working midnight's nuts ! Thanks in advance
 
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Old 12-28-13, 03:17 PM
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all I get are 3 or 4 different codes
What codes DO you see?

Was the aquastat supplied as part of a new boiler? Some of the OEM models are 'crippled'.

Some of the older units do not have all the features that might be found in the newer ones.

If this came with the boiler, what make/model boiler do you have?

Did it EVER work properly? I ask because if it just started doing this, it's likely not going to be fixed by changing settings... there may be some other problem at play.
 
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Old 12-28-13, 03:33 PM
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The codes are err, Hi,ASC,EEE,ASC,SEC The boiler was given to me complete from my girlfriend after switching to gas, only used 2 months her house and all last year at my house.Entire Unit was completely new. The burner is a Beckett AF/AFG. The boiler is a Trifire. There is no tank for hot water. You know I really dont remember it working like this last winter, I would have remembered that. We are only into December and it is driving me nuts. Its the circulator mostly that keeps starting and stopping. Sometimes kicking on and off 7 or 8 times with only a 10 or 15 second pause. Thanks
 
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Old 12-28-13, 03:54 PM
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Hmmmmm....

Is " err " actually capitalized? " Err " ? That would indicate an error code.

If you stop at " Err " does the display alternately show Err and then a number? If so, what is that number?

Is " Hi " actually " HL " (note capitalization)

I don't recognize " EEE " at all! Same with " SEC " ...

"ASC" should be the "Anti Short Cycle" settings.
 
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Old 12-28-13, 07:24 PM
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I have the L7224U and it doesn’t have that ASC option.

But I got the paragraph below from top-left page 5 of the link below, and also looking at the table on page 5, it seems that maybe the control on the boiler is actually an L7248. That would seem to explain why no low-limit etc. are displayed, just hi-limit and ASC. But I’m not sure- to me the word “also” in the paragraph seems misused. However my reading ability is in decline. LOL

But I think the table seems clear? Just a thought - a Wild AZZ Guess lol

On the L7224 models, the High Limit, Low Limit, Low Limit Differential, and Anti Short-Cycle time can be adjusted to the setting recommended by the boiler OEM. On the L7248 models, the High Limit, and Anti Short-Cycle time are also adjustable, see “Adjusting Settings”.
https://customer.honeywell.com/resou...0s/68-0281.pdf
 
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Old 12-29-13, 10:21 AM
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OK here we go, got home and went downstairs and the Err was flashing with the number 1 , pressed all three buttons but the Err and one wouldnt reset until I pulled out the firematic and pushed it back in then I could read the codes.
Yes Hi is actually HL with a setting of 180
EEE... the top of the first 2 Es have the top cut off and I dont have a keystroke to show you what I mean
Thereis definately a SEC and a bsp and a dhc. Also the cover says L7224/L72248 but the side of the box says L7248A 1008 Not sure if this makes a difference.. We getting closer ???
 
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Old 12-29-13, 11:25 AM
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...EEE... the top of the first 2 Es have the top cut off ...
hi Dinows –

I think if you look at the table on page 6 you will see the display with the top of the 2 E’s cut off is actually the display “ttE” for the EnviraCom Thermostat status. I can’t remember what mine flashes when I select that (i.e. select “ttE”) but I have the L7224U. However, I guess it would be the same set of choices. I don’t have an EnviraCom Thermostat.

Maybe everything is OK with your control? If you can figure out if the display(s) after the ttE makes sense?

https://customer.honeywell.com/resou...0s/68-0281.pdf


I forgot that you are also seeing an error code.
 
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Old 12-29-13, 11:38 AM
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Just saw that Table 10 on page 10 says err 1 is a "water sensor" problem. I guess that means that the bulb that is pushed into the well to measure the boiler temperature is not working properly? Maybe it's not in the well far enough or ...doesn't that bulb wiring plug into the Aquastat? I seem to remember that. Maybe that connection came loose on the board?

This all assuming that's what err 1 means.

When you say pulling out the Firematic, is that the Aquastat control or a portion of it? Maybe that would prove or disprove any connection with the "water sensor"?
 

Last edited by zoesdad; 12-29-13 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 12-29-13, 03:00 PM
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display “ttE” for the EnviraCom Thermostat status
Yes... I agree... the manual doesn't really say what this should be, but I suspect "ON" or "OFF" would be the value displayed. I'll look further, but I don't think it's meaningful.

The Err 1 is surely a problem with the sensor in the immersion well.

If there's a problem with the sensor, you won't be able to 'reset' it. The problem could be a bad sensor, or a bad connection on the wires to it.

When the control does it's 'self check' it is looking for a resistance reading on that sensor and expects it to be within a certain range. If it finds a reading way out of range, either high (open circuit) or low (short circuit) it flags it as an error.

pulled out the firematic and pushed it back in then I could read the codes.
Please explain what you mean by 'firematic'.
 
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Old 12-29-13, 03:09 PM
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There is definitely a SEC and a bsp and a dhc.
bsp is BOILER SETPOINT, and if you see this it means that you also have the "OUTDOOR RESET MODULE" connected. You won't see that if you don't. There should be an OUTDOOR SENSOR installed if you are using this module.

dhc is going to give a YES or NO response... alternately flashing... if it says YES it means that you have a 'domestic hot water' module attached.

I still don't see an "SEC" in the list of codes.

I'm downloading the trifire manual now...

it's here: http://www.ecrinternational.com/comm..._key=9&ext=pdf
if anyone wants to follow along in the hymnal.

Is it possible for you to take a clear picture of the boiler controls so we can see what you are working with?
 
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Old 12-29-13, 03:18 PM
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Dagnabbit... seems that Utica is no longer using the 7224/7228 and has switched to the HydroStat 3250 and the manual available is the new one... no help there!

Digging deeper, the older manuals are available on the website in separate section. I found one that has the 7248, reviewing now:

Revision D

http://www.ecrinternational.com/comm..._key=9&ext=pdf

Nope... no help there either... very little info on aquastat in the manual.

Bottom line is that if you are getting an ERROR CODE, that needs to be dealt with first. It would seem that your error code is relating to the temperature sensor.

Can't do much else until that problem is remedied.
 

Last edited by NJT; 12-29-13 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 12-30-13, 03:04 PM
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First of all we always called the burner on and off switch the "firematic", I just went downstairs and the error code 1 was flashing each time the circulator was going on and off on and off. The manual gauge and the temp on the control box are off about 35 degrees, the manual gauge always reads lower, the digital on the box jumps around, it went from 173 to 205 in about 10 seconds So having said that what do you suggest I do, get a new control ? wack this one with a hammer, try unscrewing this and having a look. Do i have to drain the boiler to pull it out ?
Thanks
 
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Old 12-30-13, 03:26 PM
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No! All you need is a new temp sensor probably.

Gimmee a minute and I'll see if I can locate a place to get one quick fast... standby

In the meantime, is it possible for you to post a photo of the controls that are on the boiler?
 
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Old 12-30-13, 03:49 PM
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Found it... don't know why this didn't come up in site search at PexSupply?

Had to go in back door...

50001464-001 - Honeywell 50001464-001 - Sensor Assembly w/ 12" Leads

Not sure why the picture shows two different probes, but this part number is the one from the manual so I assume it's correct.
 
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Old 12-30-13, 04:17 PM
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Thinking about this a bit further, it IS POSSIBLE that the probe itself is OK and the a'stat is bad...

If I were on the job, I would get out my multimeter and test the probe first.

But, for $20 or so might be worth the gamble to just try a new one.

Have you made sure that the connector to the probe is not simply loose?

It's that 3 wire plug right in the middle...


image courtesy honeywell.com
 
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Old 12-31-13, 02:40 PM
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Ok I might have a little light to shed on this, not sure. When I go through the displays on my L7224U and get to “ASC” it alternately flashes “0” and “SEC”. They seem to make SEC a mystery.. Normally you see a single option that has been selected after you see the feature name displayed. For example, if you select LL, you will alternately see “LL” then “145” then “LL” then “145” and so on ( if you have the low limit set at 145).

But when you select ASC you see ASC then “0” then “SEC” then “ASC” then “0” then “SEC” and so on. What the??? I guess there are 2 parts to the option. I did not press the UP DOWN arrows to see what other choices there are for the ASC option since I’m afraid to touch it now, until I figure out what’s going on.

Also this may be related to what Dinows sees: The sticker on the relays (as seen if the picture on post 15) on mine says L7224U – and that’s what I used to have. But the sticker in the cover says L7224/L7248 – not L7224U? OK, that’s probably irrelevant. I just checked my old L7224U. Stickers are the same: cover says L7224/L7248 but sticker inside on relays = L7224U.

Also this is a replacement for my previous L7224U that went south. But my old
L7224U would display:

Zn, Zc, Brn, Cir, as seen in table 4 on page 6 on this link

https://customer.honeywell.com/resou...0s/68-0281.pdf

however my new L7724U (supposed to be a L7224U) does not. These are the new displays:

Hl=180
Hdf=20
LL=145
Ldf=12
duu=OFF
ASC= 0 then SEC
Pc=ON
F-C= F

Don’t know why I’m missing Zc, Zr, Cir, Brn – like the old L7224U displayed? As far as I can tell the control works right?

So I don’t know whether this helps Dinows or not. When/if I ever figure out what’s going on I’ll post back. Maybe these are all different Rev levels? But why no LL displayed for Dinows? And why no more Brn and Cir and Zn and Zr displays for me. Maybe jumpers somewhere?

But in the meantime off to the watering trough and…

Happy New Year!!!!
 
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Old 12-31-13, 02:53 PM
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In this context I believe that the SEC setting means SECONDS and is the adjustable portion of the Anti Short Cycle ( ASC ) parameter.

ASC

Anti Short-Cycle Timeout (SEConds); “OFF” is disabled.
This from the manual ( I added the capitalization and bold on the SEC in the quote ) indicates that "OFF" means the feature is disabled, but what you are seeing on the a'stat seems to say that 0 (zero) SEConds is actually 'disabled'.

Happy New Year!
 
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Old 12-31-13, 04:17 PM
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Well I just got home, read the posts and before going out will pull the plug out and push it back in (always try the easy stuff first) Tomorrow I will take a picture of what I have and post it. Boy am I learning a lot about burners ! And i do appreciate everyones help in saving me a few bucks (cops dont make a lot in NH !)
 
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Old 01-01-14, 09:22 AM
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In this context I believe that the SEC setting means SECONDS and is the adjustable portion of the Anti Short Cycle ( ASC ) parameter.
Oh you are so right as usual Trooper! Of course – SEConds. My bad. I should have re-read the description for ASC and reminded myself what ASC is all about. ASC clearly talks about setting a timer from 0- 5 minutes for the Anti Short Cycle. I think I had Enviracom on the brain and was thinking SEC= some kind of comm. security level. (btw I no longer get an Enviracom choice on my new L7224U, I did on the old, what is happening here?)

I did run a test and found that if you cycle through the choices for ASC it jumps in increments of 10 seconds. There is no “OFF”, just 0 seconds, so 0 seconds obviously=”OFF” as you say. (When I used to do stuff like this I clearly would have displayed “OFF”, unless there was an extremely strong reason to have 0=”OFF”)

Wait a cotton pickin minute … I just re-read the entry in table 3 on page 5 for “ASC”. It clearly says “OFF” = disabled. Is there a lawsuit here? LOL

I checked and my first L7224U was Rev B, my new one is Rev F. Why would Rev F drop out the Enviracom, Zr, Zc, brn, and Cir displays/options and add the ASC, duu, and Pc options? Sounds like it’s a control for a totally different environment? Seems like some of the old had to be removed to make room for the new? (There is in fact a ODR ready sticker on the L7224 Rev F that wasn’t on the L7224 Rev B unit. Could that explain some of the above changes to Rev F?).

Don’t want to wander off Dinows problem but seems to me it’s not very clear what to expect when you run through the menus on the L7224/L7248: now you have EnviraCom, now you don’t, now you have ASC, and now you don’t, etc. So what should Dinows be seeing in terms of menus and options?

Ok, my bad again! Just caught this for the first time, Dinows says:

…but the side of the box says L7248A 1008 ...
I guess the 7248 clearly implies there should be no tankless coil in the system and hence LL would not be a menu option. So maybe the only problem is in fact with the bulb sensor?

Dinows I guess your pics will be very helpful, the pros here can tell a whole lot just by looking at the pics.

(cops dont make a lot in NH !)
Dinows I don’t understand how we get our priorities so wrong. There must be some explanation. I’m waiting for some genius sociologist to explain it! But I’m not holding my breath. LOL
 
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Old 01-01-14, 09:39 AM
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I've been loosely following the evolution of the 7224/7248 since they came out with it... and the firmware has been updated and changed many times. Somewhere on my old computer hard drive there is a 'collection' of the early revision manuals but the computer itself is dead at the moment. Some day I'll pull the HD and see if I can extract anything from it...

The point is though that IMHO Honeywell is not managing the new control lines very well as far as firmware 'history' goes. I feel that they should get on the ball with a published 'firmware revision history'. They should have included from day one a method to 'read' the installed firmware rev level and provided a list of changes to each revision. It's ridiculous to me that early revisions are 'lost to history' and no way to tell easily what revision is installed. All of the 'legacy' versions documentation should still be made available to techs... but without a way to query the installed revision, that's an exercise in futility itself.
 
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Old 01-01-14, 09:51 AM
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That makes great sense. Too bad you are not managing those guys.
 
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Old 01-01-14, 10:32 AM
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Oh, I wouldn't want that job!

Software Engineers can't be managed... they can be 'handled', but not managed!
 
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Old 01-01-14, 11:08 AM
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LOL So true!.......................
 
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Old 01-01-14, 04:21 PM
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Well you guys are not going to believe this but it is working properly, not starting and stopping any more and no more error code. This came after I took the plug out in the picture and plugged it back in last night. I still cant get the low limit or the low differential, but maybe it didnt come with that. I get the ASC and the SEC and as zoesdad said they go from 10 to whatever. they are both showing 20, does that sound right ? Also can you believe it is fixed, would have never guessed that. Will write back tomorrow after the night is done to make sure, thanks
 
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Old 01-02-14, 07:05 AM
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not going to believe this but it is working properly
I believe it... happens with dirty or loose connections...

I still cant get the low limit or the low differential, but maybe it didnt come with that
I believe it is correct that it does NOT have the "Low Limit" feature.

In the old Honeywell a'stats, the numbers that end in "24" i.e. L8124x were all 'triple' a'stats and DID include a low limit.

In the old Honeywell a'stats, the numbers that end in "48" i.e. L8148x were all 'single' a'stats and did NOT include a low limit.

It seems they followed suit with the new varieties for some time... but then gave the 7224 a " U " designation meaning UNIVERSAL and added the ability to turn the Low Limit on or off... which pretty much obsoleted a separate Lxx48 model.

I get the ASC and the SEC and as zoesdad said they go from 10 to whatever. they are both showing 20, does that sound right ?
If you don't have a 'short cycle' problem, that setting really doesn't matter... but 20 seconds doesn't seem to be a long enough time to prevent a short cycle anyway. If it's working good, leave it alone!
 
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Old 01-02-14, 06:41 PM
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Well I think it is for real, the furnace is running perfect and it has been 2 days. I cant thank you guys enough for helping me out (maybe we can get zoesdad to join the "Brotherhood" !) Thanks Again
 
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Old 01-03-14, 09:11 AM
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Well that’s great to hear. Sounds good. We really need our systems working now. These temps are unbelievable!

“Join the Brotherhood” …. like that!
 
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Old 03-20-14, 01:47 PM
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Well its doing it again !!!

Well after a couple of peaceful months the boiler and circulator is doing it again, on again off again, so it is time to bite the bullet and buy something. Error code is still the same 1 Now do I buy the sensor probe or the control ?

Thanks Deano
 
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