Weil-McLain gas hot water furnace smell like burning wires

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  #1  
Old 01-07-14, 06:38 AM
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Weil-McLain gas hot water furnace smell like burning wires

Weil-McLain model # PCG-5

Everything works fine, but smells like burning wires or plastic.
I checked around and under unit. The only thing that looks out of the ordinary is a small pile of soot that has built up over 20 years and it was touching the burner.
I cleaned that out but problem persists.
 
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Old 01-07-14, 07:10 AM
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Are there any wires that appear burned or charred?
 
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Old 01-07-14, 07:25 AM
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Nope
I felt every wire, none of them are hotter then the others
The pump was replaced last year, so I don't think it's burning up
 
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Old 01-07-14, 07:31 AM
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It wouldn't necessarily be the wires themselves that are burning up. You may be getting a roll out condition where the flame will actually lick the wires for a moment each time it fires. It could also be the relay that smells like its burning up. Take the cover off and get a whiff inside the relay.
 
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Old 01-07-14, 07:51 AM
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Flames are not close enough to any wires to cause trouble.
Relay looks just like this one:
510-312-167 - Weil Mclain 510-312-167 - Transformer-Relay, 120/24V
Does not seem like the burnt smell is coming from there.
System just kicked on and went thru cycle with no smell.
I'll prob replace relay when it warms up, just to be safe. Its got 20 years on it.
I'm home all day today, so I will monitor it.
 
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Old 01-07-14, 09:12 AM
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What makes you think its the boiler? Do you have an electric HWH? Something else electrical nearby???
 
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Old 01-07-14, 09:23 AM
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Gas HWH next to it
Only smell it when heat kicks on.
I can smell it outside in the exhaust fumes too (windy today, blows exhaust down roof to back door)
 
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Old 01-07-14, 10:30 AM
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Is there a Draft hood or damper on your boiler?
 
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Old 01-07-14, 12:32 PM
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No
It goes out of top and right into the flue
 
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Old 01-07-14, 02:19 PM
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Get some pics up. Boiler compartment, flue piping, and so on.
 
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Old 01-07-14, 03:42 PM
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Yeah, let's see what you're working on. As I recall that boiler MUST have a 'draft hood' on the flue piping. Could be a big part of the problem.
 
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Old 01-07-14, 04:25 PM
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Draft hood yes, looks pretty clean
No Damper
System worked all day today with no issues.
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Old 01-07-14, 04:30 PM
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A little warmer tomorrow so I will shut it down and take the vent piping down and clean everything
I ordered the transformer/relay. I'll put that in when it gets here. $40 for preventive maintenance.
 
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Old 01-07-14, 07:55 PM
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Started to smell again tonight
I took the pipes off and this is what it looks like
Is there suppose to be that much build up?
I'm guessing it needs service
 
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Old 01-07-14, 08:02 PM
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Oh my no!!!!!!

Your burners look really layerd in dust... That big black pile under the burners was a give away...

Have all gas pressures checked...

Heat exchanger vacuumed and brusher real well..


Flue obstruction? Even though would come out draft hood,

please make sure all CO detectors are working in the home...!!!

Try to find the cause as gas burners dont do that...
 
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Old 01-07-14, 08:07 PM
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Wow you probably are getting some roll out with that amount of buildup. Holy crap thats bad. Looks like an oil boiler.
 
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Old 01-07-14, 08:20 PM
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Looks like an oil boiler.
Worse! WAY worse!

Yeah buddy, there's a definite problem there. Soot like that means massive CO numbers. That heat exchanger looks damn near 100% plugged! Gas is supposed to burn CLEAN... there should NEVER be ANY soot.

Explains the discoloration of that burner access panel too. That panel getting that hot might be what you are smelling...

Have you ever looked at the flames? I bet they are ORANGE and not BLUE.

Ditto the CO detectors.
 
  #18  
Old 01-08-14, 02:35 AM
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5am
just woke to CO alarm in furnace room going off
shut system off
CO alarms in basement stairwell and upstairs did not go off
Is cleaning this unit a DIY project?
What's the best way to go about it?
Could a blocked flue cause it?
A few years ago we had the screen up top break away and a squirrel made nice nest in the flue. System backed up the first time we turned it on in the Fall. I cleaned it out and had no more trouble.
When the sun comes up I will go up on the roof and check the flue.
Yes, orange flames
 
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Old 01-08-14, 03:33 AM
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reading up on exsessive soot...
Could the boiler room be too small?
140K BTU boiler plus 40K BTU HWH
Room is 6'x12' with 6.5' ceiling
 
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Old 01-08-14, 03:45 AM
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Good morning....I dont think this is a DIY project..

This is how people die in thier sleep.. That boiler has has issues for a long period... I am not sure how well it can be cleaned...

Looks like someone changed the flue pipe. I see pieces all around on the floor... Its common homeowners intall the pipe in the chimney too far were it hits the other side and blocks the flue...

But still that cast iron heat exchanger needs cleaning.. You need several cleaning brushes of different sizes..Burners need to be remove and cleaned... You need a manometer to check the W.C. of the gas valve and the gas feed...( I have seen people have regulator issues at their gas meter)


CO alarms in basement stairwell and upstairs did not go off


CO detectors should be changed every 5 yrs.. And thats the good ones... The problem is CO detectors are made to not go off until 200ppm or so... If the CO detector goes off your in trouble IMO..

And if there are children in the home CO ......?


Please read here...

Carbon Monoxide - CO Can Be Deadly for Children











 
  #21  
Old 01-08-14, 04:16 AM
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Good morning and thanks.
I have CO alarm that signals any rise over 100ppm in CO levels with a couple beeps.
That's what went off this morning. Scary enough to keep me up since then...
The danger level alarm did not go off.
I replace them when they start to chirp. 2 of them were new last year.
I just ordered 3 more this morning. 2 plug-in w/ batt back-up.

I had a plumber replace the circ pump and exp tank 2 years ago. No mention of soot build up.

Nothing has been done to the flue since we bought the house 16 years ago.
The house was switched from oil to gas right before we bought it.
The pipe only goes in the wall a few inches, the flue is about a foot away

Anyone you can recommend in north jersey? Gunna get pretty chilly in here today
 
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Old 01-08-14, 04:34 AM
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Anyone you can recommend in north jersey?
Cant recommend anyone per the rules of this site...

I can say if you call one of the big add people you never know what your going to get.. Best to find a small time licenced plumber IMO......
 
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Old 01-08-14, 11:36 AM
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Wow!!!
I called about 10 plumbers
1 guy I went to HS with said it's not worth cleaning it out, $5k for new unit
4 guys returned call and told me to call someone else.
1 guy told me to call gas company
1 guy worked for gas company and does work on the side is coming by at 5:30pm
We'll see...
 
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Old 01-08-14, 12:56 PM
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You my be better off replacing but you must find the cause.... Or the new boiler will do the same....
 
  #25  
Old 01-10-14, 02:05 PM
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Not a DIY job
Plumber came and cleaned /adjusted unit.
Works like new for $90
Room is too small to support 140k btu boiler and 40k btu HWH, so it burns yellow. Have to leave doors open until I can put in louvre doors.
 
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Old 01-10-14, 02:45 PM
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Room is too small to support 140k btu boiler and 40k btu HWH, so it burns yellow. Have to leave doors open until I can put in louvre doors.
I'm not sure I would completely trust that a louvered door will give you enough combustion air. Depending on how 'tight' the home is, you could potentially still have problems.

Also, when the boiler runs, it 'de-pressurizes' the home and the air that it pulls in for combustion will cause outside air to get pulled into the home and increase your heat loss.

It would probably be wise to investigate alternate source of combustion air into the room.

There are a number of ways to do this...

All will require an opening to the outside. Are there any basement windows in the room which you can pop the glass out of and replace with a dryer vent to use as air inlet? You would have to remove the 'flapper' that seals the vent so it can draw air in.

Put a piece of wood or metal in the removed window and mount the vent.

Run a piece of dryer duct from the vent down to the floor and then back up the wall again in a " U " shape.

When either boiler or water heater run, they will pull air in the vent. When not running, the cold air will settle into the U shape and act as a 'trap' to prevent airflow when not needed.

There is also a powered product called 'Fan In a Can' that can be wired into the controls to power up when the boiler is running.

CAS-4 - Field Controls CAS-4 - Fan In A Can for Gas Systems (24V)
 
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Old 01-10-14, 06:40 PM
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If it worked once before what's different now? More than likely the house was always pulling in air from outdoors. That boiler is probably grossly oversized. Thats a lot of BTUh for one house.

Did he also pull the flue and inspect the chimney? If you had that much buildup inside the boiler, I wouldn't doubt the chimney looks just as bad. That may be why its burning yellow, unless you recently enclosed you boiler inside of a room with a non louvered door.
 
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