Please help water hammer new steam boiler install

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Old 01-08-14, 08:10 AM
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Unhappy Please help water hammer new steam boiler install

Hello guys ,New to foroum but need help bad, and seemes you are quite knowlageable, i recently had a install done. i had a 70 year old national steam gas boiler 435,000 btu replaced , the installer seemed verry knowlageable at the time i atempted due dillagance and did a quite a bit of research but the qualfied list seemes to be verry short i definatly recived the impression that it is not so much the equipment now adays as the installer , i still trust the installer but am now looking at some charges for him comming back for a problem that didnt exisist before the install and we are verry tight on funds here , the solution was to install 2 slant finn boilers one as a slave with a delay in essence creating a two stage boiler both piped together,the main is a 275.00 btu, slave is a 200,000 btu that will kick in at 12 minutes if main dosent sastify heat call,, the piping alone is creative but verry clean and professional and yes we now have a hartford loop the water feeder is on the slave side and both LWCO ard sending signal to feeder he may want to use only one..? not to keen on that .., the problem is the main boiler semes to be calling for water turing on and off and then overfilling , while feeder on lowest setting , durring morning fire up from 63 to 66 i am getting aloot of watter hammer BAD, installer stating to much lag in return for condsate comming back , wants to try chemicals to free up rust in return and run a pipe snake in old pipereturn to free up if blockages...? snake could crack pipe right? 119 yr old buliding...?right? aslo sugested second resivoior by furnace cant rember termanoligy but seems what ive read it cant take pressure and has to vent seperatley ... new concerins with that include brick errosion? need stainless flue? please help
 
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Old 01-08-14, 08:23 AM
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Hello and welcome....

Just to get an understanding of what your heating with 400k plus btu??/ Is this a home?

How long ago was this installed?

The installer should be the turn to guy... You may get different input here as a baseline but you should have some type of warranty... The installer should make good if there is a desighn issue..

semes to be calling for water turing on and off and then overfilling , while feeder on lowest setting , durring morning fire up from 63 to 66 i am getting aloot of watter hammer BAD, installer stating to much lag in return for condsate comming back , wants to try chemicals to free up rust in return and run a pipe snake in old pipereturn to free up if blockages.
What auto feed do you have? You can set the time higher is needed before it fills.. This is for slow returns.. It seems like what you have...

I probably would not snake.. You could try chemicals...

Where are you getting the banging???


aslo sugested second resivoior by furnace cant rember termanoligy but seems what ive read it cant take pressure and has to vent seperatley ... new concerins with that include brick errosion? need stainless flue?

Can you take many pics of the system?

Any and all suggestions he is making is of no charge to you correct?
 
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Old 01-08-14, 10:49 AM
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hammer is comming in walls, pipes, and installer is saying there IS a cost due to unforseen problems and it is the building, but he will warranty any thing with boiler for 5 years, it is a home just a big old one , feed is wells mclain eletronic the common black half round one, not mechinacial, i can do pics but i do not know how to do photo bucket ...
 

Last edited by lawrosa; 01-08-14 at 11:05 AM. Reason: Removed contact info... Not allowed here....Read rules and policys...
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Old 01-08-14, 11:04 AM
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installer is saying there IS a cost due to unforseen problems and it is the building,
Did it happen with the old system? If not then his design is likely the cause....


Post pics to photo bucket... Then get the link to thos pics from there and simple paste them here....
 
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Old 01-08-14, 11:08 AM
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This may be the issue.............


http://www.weil-mclain.com/en/multim...ins/SB0606.pdf
 
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Old 01-08-14, 11:09 AM
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ok will try , didnt work so good the first time trying to post photos , and he states it is not design it is becaues pipes are old and new boilers dont hold as much water as oldstyle so consdate returning is too slow i dont want to piss him off but also want a good system , all of the other installers arround here seemed worse lol that quoted job,i.e. less knowladgeable, and was installed a month agao p.s. thank you law
 
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Old 01-08-14, 11:14 AM
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and he states it is not design it is becaues pipes are old and new boilers dont hold as much water as oldstyle so consdate returning is too slow
Hog wash... There is an answer and reason to everything... And also a fix..

Did you read this? Possibly show it to him...

http://www.weil-mclain.com/en/multim...ins/SB0606.pdf
 
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Old 01-08-14, 11:21 AM
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Here is the other part of that bulletin.

http://www.weil-mclain.com/en/multim...ins/SB0605.pdf
 
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Old 01-08-14, 12:27 PM
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Old 01-08-14, 12:31 PM
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i hope that link works im new , there is only 6 , the old style lwco in the photo i was told by him is for the milivolt backup sysyem that can b used if we lose power, the two new ones have wells mclain probe type
 
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Old 01-08-14, 03:59 PM
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chimney vent, in the photos you can see on top the 2 automatic dampers and vent into chimney, was told no need to sleve due to low eficiency and would not make acid condencsation due to chimney on inside of house not exterior, as to heater?,.... do you mean the boiler itsyelf? they are a slant fin galaxy model 275,000 btu and one200,000 btu u trap i am not familiar please advise
 
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Old 01-08-14, 05:33 PM
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disregard those three posts... They do not belong in this thread... I will try to move them...

edit... Moved. I was replying to a water heater thread and they went here instead...
 

Last edited by lawrosa; 01-08-14 at 05:38 PM. Reason: moved three posts to correct forum
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Old 01-08-14, 06:11 PM
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You may want to run both boilers and see if you get banging all over the house. You're basically cutting your steam output in half for a system that was designed for a certain amount of sq ft of steam. All of your steam is probably condensing inside the piping and creating water hammer. What you should think about doing is controlling the 2 boilers based on pressure not so much time. For the amount of work that went into that system I'm shocked they used those crappy pressurtrols that are given with the boiler. Also when piping in 2 boiler like that, precautions need to be taken to allow both boilers to maintain a certain level.one boiler may overfill the other if an equalizer line isn't ran with a trap on it.

The proper way to modulate steam like that is 100% then turn down based on pressure. What you need to do is fire both boilers until it reaches a set pressure, then one or the other can shut down. If the pressure drops to a certain level then the off boiler would refire until the desired pressure is made. You need to give the system all the steam it was designed for right away so it can warm everything up and once there's pressure then you can modulate.

Just as a test, fire both boilers one morning on a cold start and see if you get banging. I bet you wont.
 
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