Wiring components in new heating system

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Old 01-12-14, 12:40 PM
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Wiring components in new heating system

Hello all, just joined, building a house in WI with radiant as primary heat source. I just got an HTP Elite FT, with a Taco SR503-EXP-4 relay, and (4) Grundfos 3 speed pumps (3 to the 3 zones, and a return) installed. Problem is I have to wire it... Would really appreciate some assistance if you all have a few moments.

I wired the house, and was asked to provide a 20a circuit to the general boiler location. I did this, not expecting to have to do the rest...

So what I have is everything mounted, and nothing wired. I'm assuming a jbox, power in (which is currently 12/2) then do I go from there to the boiler and the relay, then from the relay to the pumps? Do I wire the return pump to the relay also or to the Boiler...? Can I continue with 12/2 or do I need to run a lower guage between the remaining components, or should I be on a 15a circuit.

I have some "phone a friends" out there, but waiting for a response. I can't find anything specific on some components on wire guage.

Thanks in advance for any insight.
 
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Old 01-12-14, 01:45 PM
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(3 to the 3 zones, and a return)
What do you mean?

Can you show us a piping diagram of what you installed?

I haven't read your whole post yet... we'll talk about wiring after I'm clear on what you piped.
 
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Old 01-12-14, 01:48 PM
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J,
To start you off you only need 14/2 wire. If you have 3 zones you only need 3 pumps. The one that comes with the boiler can be one and you need 2 others for the other 2 zones.

They will all go through the taco relay to the wiring.

I'm sure you'll be hearing from Trooper who can direct you with diagrams or sites which I'm not able to do at this point.
 
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Old 01-12-14, 02:06 PM
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To start you off you only need 14/2 wire
Yes, that will be fine for the pumps. But the 20A line with 12 ga to a 4" utility box with a 'service switch' in an accessible location is probably 'code'.

The service switch is 'usually' placed at the top of basement stairs, and has the RED cover plate.



The wiring from the junction box to the various components must all be the metal jacketed type "MC" cable. Do NOT use the plastic stuff for interconnecting wiring.

If you have 3 zones you only need 3 pumps.
Unless he piped it primary/secondary, which is preferred, and the pump he's referring to as a 'return pump' is actually the secondary boiler loop pump...

We need to make sure it's piped correctly before we discuss the wiring.

Here's the manual in case anyone wants to follow along in the hymnal:

http://www.htproducts.com/literature/lp-387.pdf
 
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Old 01-12-14, 02:18 PM
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Hopefully this works NJ. Thank you for your time!

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7295/1...e1d6f97c_b.jpg
 
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Old 01-12-14, 02:23 PM
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Thanks Spott, I appreciate the input,
 
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Old 01-12-14, 02:25 PM
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Hopefully this works
It works, but much too small to see any details.

Did you pipe from a diagram in the manual? Which one?
 
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Old 01-12-14, 02:37 PM
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I downloaded the pic and blew it up... it's grainy as he77 but I think I can see that this was piped primary/secondary from what I can tell.

So the one you are calling the 'return pump' is the one directly below the boiler? Let's call that the 'boiler loop pump' instead.

From page 54 of the manual (which you should be referring to):

3. Connect the boiler pump as shown in Figure 31 to the terminals marked 1 (HOT), 2 (NEUT), and 3 (GND).
That pump won't draw more than 3 Amps so may be wired directly to the boiler control as shown in the diagram.

I would have mounted the Taco panel closer to the pumps myself. Shorter wire runs... looks like that area to the right of the boiler is a better spot.

Make sure you don't put too many wires in that 4" utility box. There is a limit per electrical codes as to how many are allowed. I don't have a chart handy, but my advice is to use a deeper box than standard. You will have multiple cables in and out and a switch mounted on the cover plate. No sense in making it difficult to squeeze 10 pounds of poop in a 5 pound box.

Don't use one of those cheesy 99 cent switches. Spend the couple of extra bucks and get a GOOD switch that is CLEARLY rated for 20 AMPS. You will find them individually packaged and not just thrown into a 'grab bag' bin.
 
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Old 01-12-14, 02:39 PM
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NJ,

The Supply house worked up the design with the plumber, didn't provide any wiring diagrams though, I can run down the the house and grab the drawings, and try to get a better pic. Is standard 12/2 (Cerrowire) ok to run through all the components (boiler/taco/pumps) heat rating etc and or capacity of terminals (too small for 12 ga?)...
 
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Old 01-12-14, 02:49 PM
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Do I need the emergency switch if the boiler has a switch on the side? or is that necessary for killing the taco/pumps too? For the sake of the non-gifted (myself):
1. power into Jbox (and possibly emergency switch)
2. power to boiler from jbox
3. fuzzy here... power to taco from boiler or from jbox,
4. power to pumps from taco
??
 
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Old 01-12-14, 03:28 PM
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Is standard 12/2 (Cerrowire) ok to run through all the components (boiler/taco/pumps) heat rating etc and or capacity of terminals (too small for 12 ga?)...
Cerrowire is a brand name.

They make both type NM (NonMetallic) and MC (aluminum jacketed).

You do NOT want to use type NM. If you are building NEW I'm SURE you have permits pulled for all the work and inspectors will FAIL you if you use NM cable for the boiler wiring. You need to use MC for the exposed wiring from the J-box to the boiler, to the TACO, to the pumps.

They will 'probably' allow NM cable to the J-box if it is up and out of reach, say near the ceiling.

I would mount the J-box about a foot down from the ceiling,

run MC from the J-box to the boiler.

MC from the J-box to the Taco.

Myself, I would use 12/2 MC from J-box to boiler, and from J-box to Taco.

MC from the Taco to each of the pumps.

This can be 14/2 MC

Do I need the emergency switch if the boiler has a switch on the side? or is that necessary for killing the taco/pumps too?
YES. There should be a switch box with a red plate mounted in an accessible location. Preferably AWAY from the near vicinity of the boiler... USUALLY at the entrance to the boiler room, at the top of the stairs, etc. Reason for this is to be able to shut the ENTIRE system down in the event that something is going on at the boiler and one can not get near it to shut off power.

It MUST kill power to EVERYTHING, Boiler, Taco, whatever.

So, what you can do is bring power to the J-box, and run a switched line out of that J-box to a location where you can mount the service switch. Or, run the power to the service switch, then out of the service switch to the J-box... your choice, whichever is easier, or uses less wire.
 
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Old 01-12-14, 03:32 PM
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Are you OK with the low voltage wiring from the Taco to the boiler?

The 'endswitch' on the Taco wires to the Thermostat terminals of the boiler. This is low voltage thermostat wiring.

You know that the thermostats wire to the Taco, yes? (I know this is a 'duhhhh' question, but need to ask).

You DO have the 'outdoor sensor' installed and connected, correct?

Please download and read the manual. It's all in there...............
 
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Old 01-12-14, 03:38 PM
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NJ,

Thank you so much for the efforts, I really appreciate the assistance!!! I do have the MC cable jacket, and all associated connectors...

I just have one more question and that's on the connection between the taco and the boiler... this would be t-stat wire, and where should I make these connections on these two devices? Here's the link for the relay instructions.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3813/1...1a77e4ff_b.jpg
 
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Old 01-12-14, 03:45 PM
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Ha, I should have refreshed sooner! Got it now! do I still need to jumper ZC/ZR on the taco utilizing the end switch (taco) to TT on boiler configuration (shows this on taco diag)

Yes got the tstat to taco connection, I have not run the wire to the outdoor sensor yet but it will be soon.

I will upload a picture when it's all done, I appreciate your help so very much!
 
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Old 01-12-14, 03:52 PM
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do I still need to jumper ZC/ZR on the taco
Yes, leave the ZC/ZR jumper in place.

Good Luck! I would be happy to see the finished product!
 
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Old 01-12-14, 05:43 PM
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In MA all you need is 14/2 wire. That's code. I think you'll find 12/2 very hard to use on control wiring. Maybe different states have different codes.
 
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Old 01-14-14, 07:14 AM
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NJ,

Got er wired up in time for my deadline, and only took me until 4am CST! I can thank you enough for your assistance; no seriously wouldn't have been able to do it with out you. Going down in a little bit to take a picture of the final product and will post on here as soon as I have it.

Thank you, thank you!
 
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Old 01-14-14, 07:19 AM
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Spott,

14/2 would have been better to work with for sure, thankfully it was surprisingly warm 25/30F (vice the -28 a week or so ago), which makes 12/2 even more fun to wire into tight places. I do like things to be over engineered for whatever reason... Thanks for taking the time to contribute.
 
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Old 01-16-14, 06:25 PM
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Trooper's the man

Trooper,

Thanks again for all your help, and thanks to Spott too! Here are the pics of the Boiler wired up and running. It took ~7% of a 500gal propane tank, to get two ~1850sq.ft slabs (4 & 5" thick) up to temp @ 62 deg. The boiler was producing about a gallon an hour of condensate. I really appreciate all the help. Here's some snaps of the boiler wired up, took your advice and moved the jbox and taco.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3832/1...3157eb75_m.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2830/1...c916fcd3_m.jpg
 
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Old 01-16-14, 06:40 PM
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Wait a minute... where's my MAGNIFYING GLASS?

Can't see 5h1t in them teeny little pics! <-- I've got my strongest glasses on too!
 
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Old 01-16-14, 07:39 PM
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I enlarged the pics and it's a nice looking job.
Your wiring is better than some electricians I know.
I hope it works out for you. Nice job.
 
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Old 01-17-14, 12:02 AM
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How about now...

IMG_5242 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

IMG_5241 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Time for thicker glasses! or maybe time for me to work on my Flickr skills! Thanks again.... (again)
 
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Old 01-17-14, 12:05 AM
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So far so good Spott. Thanks!
 
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Old 01-17-14, 02:27 PM
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How about now...
Nope... bad link says Flickr..............................
 
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